Podcast: Shohei Ohtani Free Agency Saga and Hello, Max Stassi
Record Date: 12/11/2023
Rundown
- [Intro] Josh and Jim got a free agent pick correct
- [2:50] How MLB reporters covered Ohtani’s free agency, and if there will be any fallout.
- [13:06] The craziness of Ohtani’s new contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers
- [22:53] Could the White Sox ever utilize this type of deferral signing for future free agents, say, Juan Soto?
- [28:20] Hello, Max Stassi. The White Sox add a veteran catcher to the 26-man roster.
- [35:33] MLB News and Rumors: Yamamoto’s market heats up, and the Dodgers trade for Trey Sweeney
Author
Sox only paying Stassi league minimum so the braves are picking up the rest. Pretty easy to cut bait at any time in the season if he doesnt work out.
Also, it highlights how much of a nothing signing this is – sort of like the Paul DeJong signing, in which he was simply looking for a major league guarantee and the Sox offered it…all of which relates back to the coverage of hot stove coverage…are either of these signings really “news” given their likely impact and the reality that both guys might not even finish the season on the team? Or are they just something that happened that is treated as news by people starving for an update?
I think those signings are news. These guys project as starters…the Sox are filling positions of need with the cheapest 1 WAR guys they can find.
That information strongly strongly implies they are not seeking to compete in 2024. It also implies, though less strongly, that the payroll is going to be significantly reduced. It doesn’t tell us if/when the Sox plan to field a competitive team again.
Getz needs to fill multiple holes. We can’t expect him to fill them all with players costing near multi million dollars per player. 1 WAR players cost somewhere 5-10 million. So paying a minimum salary for a $7 million player, that sounds like a pretty good deal in isolation.
My post didn’t say I thought the deals were bad…I was not criticizing Getz.
I was just saying the choices the Sox have made so far, to me, indicate the direction the team is taking and that’s one reason why they are newsworthy.
Do you think they intend to compete in 2024?
I didn’t reply to your comment but Soxygen’s. I have no qualms with your comment.
My mistake – clearly need to up my caffeine intake.
Since the Braves we’re willing to pay $6+ million to not have Stassi on their roster, I have to wonder about whether he is really a $7 million value…and I don’t think there is anything newsworthy about “team that has been crappy for most of my life intends to be crappy again next year.”
I’m just drawing a parallel here because we have management/orgs with PR machines, labor/agents trying to get leverage, people who make a living selling content, and people who are starved for content. Sometimes those combos of players and incentives lead to stories being reported before the facts are straight…and other times they result in people treating a non-story like a story. I view the Max Stassi and Paul DeJong signings as non-stories. But I can understand why the team and the player and the fans and the content ecosystem report them like stories.
The PTBNL is worth something. Sure, I can see why anybody doubts Stassi is a $7 million player, but Getz is paying the league minimum to find out. It is a good gamble.
We’ll see! They both feel like spring training NRIs that are getting too much December coverage, but that’s just my take and we all have our own.
I mean, I think these guys project as opening day starters. Stassi certainly.
You could imagine that with a good Spring run that Sosa gets a middle infield job, but my guess is that Grifol almost assuredly is going to run with DeJong and Lopez.
Sure, but the coverage and reactions generally across all outlets hasn’t exactly been “White Sox are willing to roll with guys who would be lucky to get a spring training invite from any other team.” Instead it has been more about the cost effective approach to adding defensive value, which certainly is the story the White Sox organization prefers. So, if “opening day starter” is news then maybe this is newsworthy. But looking back across the years the Sox have signed a lot of similar players who we only think about on Sporcle Saturdays.
Its only December 12 and I know I have to keep reminding myself of that, but it feels like the whitesox are literally rolling with a lot of guys who would be lucky to get a spring invite from most clubs…
and thats before they may trade away their dh, and still with a missing RF’er
Okay, yeah, but, like, what did you expect? This is what it looks like when a bad team takes a step back to “retool” or “rebuild” or whatever you want to call it.
I see a lot of complaints about these moves, but very few realistic alternatives. People keep saying things like, “sure this guy is good at defense but he’s bad at offense.” Who do you want them to sign? Who is a player that’s both good at offense, good at defense, and someone the Sox would realistically spend on?
I wouldn’t say I’m especially optimistic about these moves but I don’t see much reason to be especially pessimistic about them, either. I think Stassi is a better option than Austin Hedges or Martin Maldanaldo, for example – and now he comes cheaper. It seems like a relatively good use of resources within the payroll constraints, as far as I can tell.
I agree, all these moves are back page news with the White Sox signing/trading for players formerly known as major leaguers. The front page is the Sox are drastically cutting payroll, possibly cutting as much as $80 million if they deal Cease & Eloy, which would also put them under $100 million total. This after the Twins just proved you could buy an AL Central title, provided you spend responsibly, which explains why the Sox are not opting for this method.
The Sox are embracing the discount MLB operation model (TB/CLE/MIL/OAK) minus the emphasis on analytics and player development.
Certainly better than paying Grandal 37 mil the past 2 years so he could put up a combined -0.5 fWAR.
Grandal put up 1.6 fWAR in the 60-game 2020 season and 3.6 fWAR in 2021.
I refuse to complain about the bad seasons in 2022 and 2023 because they were for the most part expected as Grandal was 33 and 34 years old in those years.
I hope at some point the White Sox become a team that routinely signs players to big long term contracts that will result in those players being grossly overpaid at the back end of those deals after producing for the first years of those contracts. Grandal was that type of contract and I want to see more of it not less. Teams that refuse to overpay for the back end of long term deals are teams that don’t sign big time free agents.
Semien and Seager will probably be overpaid when they reach age 37 under their current deals and I’d be happy to have them if it meant a world series win along the way.
Me too. Enough with the deal by deal analysis of “was this a bargain?”…or “did we maintain long term payroll flexibility?” I’d like to see this organization spend money to win. And I have stopped spending money on Sox fandom until they do.
So a Teoscar Hernandez signing would be fine with you then, excellent glad to hear it.
I’d be ok with signing Teoscar Hernández for a deal at the right price that appropriately built his upcoming decline into the pricing. The idea that the Sox can get good while never signing anything but sure-fire bargains for the entirety of their contracts seems like a strategy that can’t work.
I also want to see more those contracts, I just hope Getz is smarter about who he gives them to.
I think Grandal was an example of a reasonable player to give such a contract to. At the time he signed, he was 30 and coming off several good seasons in a row. I think the plan was that he would give the Sox three good seasons. He gave the Sox two good seasons and played the third hurt. I think Grandal would’ve been solid in 2022 if healthy because 2023 Grandal was a bit better despite being 34 years old. If his 2022 had been somewhere between 2021 and 2023, the Grandal contract would’ve worked out pretty much the way a team would hope.
I’m pitiful, actually caring about these borderline rosterables and hoping they somehow might augur a less fan-fatal 2025….
Right now, the Sox have $94M tied up in 17 likely roster spots. I am not including Cease, who I’m sure will be traded. The 17 players I am counting are:
Benintendi, Yoan, Eloy, Robert, Stassi, Lee, Vaughn, Dejong, Lopez and 8 pitchers- Soroka, Kopech, Touki, Crochet, Santos, Lambert, Drohan and Banks. That means they need a starting RF and 3 more position players, hopefully one being a starting 2B. and 2 starting pitchers and 3 relievers.
If they can get one of Baltimore’s right field prospects and a good infielder, that would move the total to about $95M for 19 spots. Add in 2 more young relievers (Leasure and Cronin?)- now that about $97M with 5 spots to fill. They would need to add a backup outfielder, utility guy, 2 starters and a reliever.
Getz could spend $25M for 2 starters, $6-7M for a decent reliever, and $10M for 2 position players, and the payroll would still be only about $140M. No reason they can’t add 2 guys from the Lorenzen, Flaherty, Giolito, Montas group for $25M.
I’m hoping he’s just waiting to see who he gets for Cease before moving forward with any free agent signings.
You forgot Fedde but thats a pretty good run down
Thanks, I knew I was forgetting someone! So that’s one of the starters- there’s no reason they can’t spend $15M on another starter. That would give them a rotation of Fedde, Soroka, Kopech, a $15M FA, and one of Touki, Nastrini, Shuster or Scholtens. At least there’s some potential there.
I think Kopech goes into a big batch of guys fighting for a spot and I’d add a few minor league invites in too, Zack Plesac, Tommy Romero, and Danny Duffy. My Sox sense is tingling towards Cease not getting moved this winter. I’d say Getz only has one splash signing available and that’ll be for a SP or RF. If it’s a SP then he’d need to trade for RF, I wonder if Kopech has any value left as I think the Cards would be willing to move Dylan Carlson. That could give us a rotation of Cease, $15M FA(Flaherty/Giolito), Soroka, Fedde, and one of Touki, Nastrini, Shuster, Scholtens, Plezac, Romero, or Duffy. That’s actually not too bad.
I’d be surprised if the Sox add another SP even after trading Cease. They have Fedde, Kopech, Soroka, Shuster, Touki, Scholtens, and Drohan. I guess maybe they sign one more but I’d be surprised if it’s from the Lorenzen and Flaherty tier. Projections have Flaherty signing a 3 year $45M deal…I don’t see the White Sox agreeing to that.
I think they’ll trade Eloy to clear payroll, but probably feel OK filling DH with Sheets. And they can probably fill the bullpen with mostly internal candidates
The only thing left to be addressed is RF…I’m guessing they do try to sign someone like Kiermaier who can play RF and backup CF.
What I read at the time suggested that Drohan is likely headed for the pen if he sticks.
I hope they don’t trade Eloy yet, just burn his mitt. Unless he’s a blight on the culture and needs to go, the risk of reducing your haul is more than made up by the shot at seriously upping it if Thames can get him to put the ball in the air and tap into his power.
He has the ability to be an Ortiz-like DH. If the Sox can coax a half-season of that out of him, then they can decide if they want to trade him or keep him to bat behind Robert.
Also, your Ceaseless rotation looks like the definition of uncertainty. I’d like to see them add something to the mix, particularly one guy you think is likely to give you 160 innings of not-terrible baseball. I don’t even know who meets that definition.
And what’s the status of Martin and Stievers?
If the season started tomorrow, youd have rf, ss, 2nd, c… with almost no upside, eloy at dh would atleast have some upside appeal he could have a hot start and get a team interested by the deadline … if you arent getting value for him right now there isnt much of a point in trading him
So if we don’t solve these positions right now for the next decade then we should just give up and dump everything?
And the season doesn’t start tomorrow, opening day is still almost 4 months away.
Martin is healing and Stievers is toast.
Thanks. Toast? Really? He looked like he had modest promise.
Several injuries.
I agree. When Eloy gets to camp, take his mitt away. If Thames could get him to lift the ball more, he’s pretty good protection for Robert.
Quality of the arms aside, they still have to get through innings, and not many of the guys listed are reliable. Kopech should probably be a reliever. Fedde has been fairly durable, but who knows what his transition back to MLB will look like. Soroka sticking in MLB and producing a season’s worth of starts would be a massive upset.
I don’t see how they can not add an arm or two just for the sake of cobbling the innings together to make it through the season.
Excellent discussion of media practices, and of Sox moves in the wake of the Winter Meetings. Speaking of which…
Anyone hear anything about Rick Hahn getting another job? When Reinsdorf fired him in August, he said the timing was in part so Hahn could get another job before the offseason musical chairs began. With the Winter Meetings behind us, the bulk of senior management hirings across the league is over. Surely someone covets the 2020 Sporting News Executive of the Year?
I checked and the last he was heard from was his statement he released after he got fired. He may be taking a year off to be with family, but the failure was so catastrophic I wouldn’t be surprised if he never works in baseball again.
If Lugo can get 3/$45 mil I expect no less for Flaherty, Giolito, Wacha, Lorenzen. I still prefer Flaherty out of that group.
More upside, more risk. I guess I agree.
So now the Royals sign Seth Lugo for 3/$45M. Jerry is shooting for first place in the division- That is having the lowest payroll. And he just might get there.
Jung Hoo Lee goes off the board at almost $20 mil per for 6 years. Man I don’t know…
why am I getting Indeed ads on Patreon?
I don’t know why sometimes ads show up when logged in with Patreon but I think it happens to all of us on occasion. In the past, Jim has replied to edit your profile and “Disconnect from Patreon” and then get out of the site and come back in. This has worked for me in the past and may be something you want to try but it may or may not work for your specific problem at this time.
That’s the first thing to check, just in case it is a mere connection issue.
Chuck — if the issue persists, shoot me an email with some details (browser info, screenshots, whether it appears on all pages or just some, etc.).
Yeah, it happens to me sometimes. What you recommend does the trick. Often times I just ignore them (the ads), and sometimes (not always) after a refresh or clicking into another article, the ads are gone as they came.