Will Venable arrives in Chicago as a new manager for a new system
Prior to this offseason, Will Venable’s managerial prospects were most known for the interviews he had turned down, feeding the notion that only the perfect opportunity would lure him away from Bruce Bochy’s coaching staff on the Rangers. Those operating under such assumptions would then be shocked that Venable’s first managing job will be taking the helm of a White Sox team that lost an MLB-record 121 games and ended the season having years of organizational rot parsed through by national reporters.
But the manager-hiring process is a world where perception has a touchy relationship with reality.
“There are some [interviews for manager jobs] that I have read that I did, that I haven’t,” said Venable, who feels he’s interviewed for more jobs than he can accurately count. “I know how challenging it is to get one of these jobs and certainly having interviewed for so many in the past, understanding that it’s a long shot. That’s how I felt coming in, but I also felt for me personally that I was prepared.”
Previous iterations of White Sox managerial hires have been scrutinized for how much change they could bring — be it in approach or simply personnel — to what was understood to be a perilously insular organization. Hiring for assistants has changed even in the two years since anyone was hoping Pedro Grifol could bring the people who had maximized Salvador Perez and Jorge Soler’s power production over from the Royals, accelerating to where pitching and hitting coaches are less tied to individual managers and more to organizations that must martial the resources for them to implement their plans. Since Venable was among the first round of White Sox managerial interviews before the 2023 season, there’s a parallel universe where he would have been looked at similarly.
But with Chris Getz already making it his stated mission to update the organization with a slate of external hires across baseball operations, his lauding of Venable is less akin to hoping the new sheriff can shake up the dusty old town, and closer to finding someone who is fit to head up a team that will spend the winter talking up its research and development department, rather than signing marquee free agents.
“One of the things that stood out for Will is for one, his ability to understand objective information,” Getz said. “Mixing that with the nuance of the game and the nuances of each individual and how that applies to on-field decisions, to development of players. He’s an ideal blend. He’s got feel for the objective and some of these subjectives.”
Venable was asked later on about what he prioritizes in a right-hand man, expressing his desire for someone who can extend his bandwidth by acting as an extension of him in communicating with players and staff. Whoever fills that role — which certainly sounds like a bench coach — could very well wind up being his signature impact on the 2025 coaching staff that will have less turnover than the worst season in franchise history and a new manager would normally suggest.
With the Sox hiring Ryan Fuller to be their director of hitting — a Brian Bannister-like role where he’s expected to inform player acquisitions and provide plans for maximizing them — Getz made ample mention of Fuller already working alongside hitting coach Marcus Thames, whom the front office never felt deserved the blame for the woeful 2024 offense. Pitching coach Ethan Katz, who has a history of working under Bannister that predates them both being with the White Sox, is also expected to return, and Venable confirmed that Grady Sizemore (under contract, after all) will be on his coaching staff in a role that has yet to be defined.
“This is an opportunity to continue to help build and be part of the foundation that’s already being laid here,” Venable said. “And I know that every one of these jobs is challenging. Every group going into every year has their work cut out for them. And I’m excited for the challenge that this group presents.”
Among the slate of former utility infielders populating the White Sox front office, Venable cuts an imposing figure. At a lean 6-foot-3, he towers over even his father Max, a longtime major league outfielder who watched from the first row as his son fielded questions with a Sox jersey buttoned over his suit. With his education touted by Sox marketing almost as much as his nine-season MLB career, Venable was quick to assert that he does in fact feel his anthropology degree from Princeton is useful for his work, since his thesis was about the cultural difference in Japanese and American baseball.
Venable’s most personable moment of Friday morning might have been his humorously circumspect description of his one career major league ejection. Like Sizemore, he was a mild-mannered player who rarely sparred with umpires, and how it will look when he has to argue with them for the sake of his team is a bit of an unknown.
“[Tripp Gibson] was the home plate umpire and I had a checked swing,” Venable said. “I didnโt think I went. He did. We talked about it and he said it was time for me to go … Probably some key words in there that I shouldnโt have said and he heard them.”
“As a coach on the bases, when you are sitting there and talking to these umpires and thereโs more face-to-face communication, itโs a lot harder to yell at them when you know them and you are talking about your families and stuff. As a manager, all I can say is I know Iโll be fighting for our players and sticking up for our players. Beyond that, I donโt know. Weโll see how it goes.”
Alongside his family, Dave Roberts and other career influences, the team media relations staff that’s been shepherding him around for the past week, Venable thanked ownership in his opening statement. He went on to say that he had lunch with Jerry Reinsdorf recently, but went out of his way to emphasize how casual it was, chatting more about baseball in general than his job with the White Sox. If the task at hand for Venable was to be a franchise-altering agent of change through force of will and clarity of vision, it would be hard to make big conclusions about his potential to do that from listening to him state generalized truisms about his ideal baseball work environment.
“It’s a team that continues to compete,” Venable said of how he wants teams that he manages to be described. “Having an environment where everyone is really excited to come to work every day and even when things arenโt going great, you continue to have that environment and that positivity. The leadership to be able to stay connected and really be on the field together and hold each other accountable is something I thought those [Padres] teams [I played on] did a great job. Iโm hoping we can create that here.”
If Venable’s task is more normally confined to commanding respect in the dugout on the strength of his professional resume and comfort with communicating the schematics and realities of modern baseball to his players, then it’s a lot easier to say he looks the part with the reputation to match. Serving as the front-facing figurehead of a functional organization is a much more typical ask for this job.
The White Sox have many miles to go to convince the public that they are such an organization, but Venable’s hire is supposed to be just a signal, rather than the solution.
“I certainly feel like we are in a much better situation than we were in a year ago,” Getz said. “It’s more than just bringing in new people and then press ‘Go.’ It takes time to shape the leadership ability of each individual along with setting processes that you feel like are going to be sustainable. In a calendar year there’s only so much you can do in regards to making changes from an infrastructure standpoint, to the roster standpoint. But we feel like we’re in a very good position, and now to add Will to the top in a managerial position is a very exciting, and I feel it complements everything that we’ve done.”
Biggest takeaway from that is Thames is somehow expected to come back. That is not a happy takeaway.
I kinda disagree? Itโs really hard for outsiders to see what the hitting coach is doing, positive or negative. A great coach can only do so much for players who donโt have ability or ability to learn. Getz probably has a better idea of his competence than we do. In any event, Thames seems like a nice guy. I hope he thrives under Venable.
Not really, look at your top 3 vets, that was the worst bit of coaching in a long time. Benintendi spent over a half season in a tailspin searching for any solution and ended up having to come out of it himself. Your top player Robert was a complete hitting basket case by the end of the year. And then there’s Vaughn, a guy struggling with breaking balls and the big solution was to get him to hunt fastballs early in the count? How prehistoric. Maybe that gets him thru the next 100 ABs but it’s not a sustainable solution and it now leaves him with nowhere else to go. And no one else did better, a complete hitting shitshow. Getz isn’t being objective by internalizing the problem. Sure he bears responsibility for what players are on the field but when those players struggle beyond their capabilities then you need to look at the people hired to get those capabilities out of them.
One theory with Benintendiโs first half is that he was hurt. But if you want to blame Thames for his first half, does he get credit for the second half? Do you really think Robertโs second half struggles (a kind description) were a matter of bad coaching? And Vaughn was what heโs been for several years: a league-average hitter. Blah.
Presidents get too much credit, and too much blame, for the economy. Hitting coaches get too much blame for poor offense (they donโt get credit for good offense, which is where the analogy breaks down). If Marcus Thames were the problem, thereโs no reason to think that Getz wouldnโt have fired him. He fired other coaches, after all.
Benintendi repeatedly denied he was hurt but if you still want to blame that for his 1st half be my guest.
I didn’t blame Thames for Benintendi’s first half, I said he didn’t do shit about it which is what he he gets paid for. Same with Robert. Same with Vaughn. Same with everyone.
If you want to compare Thames to Trump go right ahead. Personally I wasn’t willing to go that low.
Marcus Thames is Joe Biden in my analogy.
I had already used Joe Biden as Tony LaRussa in my analogy.
In this example, is Reinsdorf Winston Churchill or Mikhail Gorbachev? I’m confused.
Nixon.
If your job is hitting coach, and pretty much all of your hitters have poor years compared to their career averages, then, yes, your job should be on the line.
We had a .221 team batting average, worst in the majors. We also were last in runs scored.
Vargas’ batting average with us this year was less than half of what he registered with the Dodgers this season. Fletcher had a much lower batting average with us this year than he did with Arizona last year.
Benintendi, Robert, Vaughn and Eloy all had their worst seasons or close to them. That’s either an amazing coincidence or evidence that our hitting coach did not do all that well.
I donโt have an opinion about Thames one way or the other but the current era of baseball doesnโt allow a hitter to get much familiarity with facing a pitcher. You arenโt going to get 20 at bats against a pitcher in your division like you would even five years ago. So the hitter is even more reliant on analytics and advance scouting than ever. If this is a recognized weak spot in the organization it will be reflected in the poor hitting results.
In Benintendis case his career was built on hitting to the opposite field but he started seeing good results in โ24 when he started pulling the ball. Much easier said than done but not doing it plays right into the other teamโs defensive scouting. I donโt think itโs coincidence that the Andrews both had better results in the second half. That could be a product of trying adjustments in the first half and then it finally coming together after a few months of working on those adjustments.
Maybe the takeaway is too many players making major adjustments all at the same time is a bad recipe. I donโt know this as a fact but it is worth considering.
All other teams and their hitters are in the same situation we are, with less divisional play, more relief pitchers being faced, etc.
We still rank last in key categories, with our core hitters producing less than they ever have, or close to it.
So, I think that if we have a .221 team batting average or worse and still rank last in MLB in runs scored on, say, Memorial Day next year, then we need to make a change at this important position. There are only so many excuses that can be made.
The White Sox had a hitting coach?
I’m still always kinda surprised at the anger at hitting coaches.
Only seems to happen in baseball. I’ve never seen a WR coach get called out in football.
You hear offensive coordinators get called out all the time which is the better analogy to a hitting coach. Chicago is particularly sensitive to this.
A conversation I had with FO post-deadline was they felt it would be an easy rationale to just fire Thames because the offense sucks, since that’s why most big league hitting coaches get fired anyway. But since they knew the offensive talent they offered him was very poor, and that something more systemic about the instructional resources they have needed to be done (like hiring Fuller), was hiring a new hitting coach really a game-changing move? Thames has worked in this role in a bunch of orgs and knows the basic mechanics of the job that meaningfully improving upon him would probably require hiring an up-and-comer. He’s clearly no miracle worker but they are operating like they trust he’ll execute the plans for guys that Fuller maps out, and keep in place a likable guy that offers some measure of continuity for players who are already starting their offseason plans.
That and it seems like he might still be under contract.
Thames is on his 4th team as hitting coach in 4 years, it’s not just the Sox.
The “he’s a good soldier” excuse is plausible but pretty damn light.
Mostly what I do not like is that keeping him says 1) Venable brings no clear offensive preference he wants to mandate, and 2) what happened in 2024 is excusable and acceptable.
There’s also the issue that he’ll again be given a roster full of young players where he has shown no ability to teach(certainly not plate discipline), his only success was with the vet/star heavy Yankees.
Bingo! I would add that he was a Getz hire too.
I didn’t mean to make it sound like I was jumping on you James, we always appreciate your insight and knowledge.
I’d like to see a couple talented Second City actors recreate the Will Venable-Jerry Reinsdorf lunch.
Venable checked his swing. That was terrible to not even appeal.
Red Sox, Orioles, Padres and Dodgers are reportedly pursuing Crochet.
O’s are my least favorite trade trade partner. The other three have some prospects really worth dreamimg on.
Iโd much rather trade with the Orioles than the Dodgers. No one ever seems to win trades with the Dodgers. Itโs be fun watching the Orioles prospect hoard and then get dominated in the playoffs. Time to let go
it getz can pry any of those I’d be pleasantly surprised!
if getz can get any of those I’d be pleasantly surprised!
Don’t really want Teel. With Quero, one of them would be superfluous. You don’t trade an ace for a backup C. Now, Mayer or Campbell would be a great return.
replace Teel with Montgomery?
I feel Montgomery has a higher ceiling, but there are two problems with this idea:
You can trade after the season is over which is now.
Things can change, we never had a Bannister or Fuller before. I’m not going to not get hitters because of what happened in the past. He is probably 2 years away at least though.
Would be willing to take a chance? I guess it depends on the return. If the return is Mayer, Campbell, Mayo, Basallo you take it. If not if offered you take Painter. If not you take Montgomery. And with the current prospect hoarding you may have to.
Swing and a hit on 2!
But it all depends on what you’re offered.
Hereโs a guy talking up a potential deal for Wilyer Abreu. I had him plus a prospect in my OPP, so I approve this message. https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2024/11/mlb-notebook-source-red-sox-right-in-the-thick-of-garrett-crochet-talks.html
Abreu doesn’t hit LHP and we can’t simply hope someday he will.
The last thing we need is a platoon corner OF headlining a Crochet trade — not with all the other talent the Red Sox have.
Red Sox, please.
Latest MLBTR article has the Mets in on him as well, but the comments remind me how hilarious fans of other teams get when it comes to trading for a star player from a rebuilding team. One idiot actually suggests Nimmo and/or McNeil, which is in and of itself farcical from the White Sox point of view. Even more hilarious is another guy is like, “But Nimmo is the heart of the team.” Unbelievable.
Any Mets trade should start with Jett Williams and Carson Benge.
If Getz believes these hires brings the team back from the dead, then the fans deserve to see a team that doesn’t find new ways to best themselves daily. I’m not asking for 80 wins, but we deserve more than a well-coached team that still can’t win a game. Spend some money over winter. Replace the worst 3 players with something better. Hard to believe we are here but as I type this, I realize I am asking for a lot. In reality, I am asking for a place to hang my little clump of hope in 2025.
โOne of the things that stood out for Will is for one, his ability to understand objective information,โ Getz said. โMixing that with the nuance of the game and the nuances of each individual and how that applies to on-field decisions, to development of players. Heโs an ideal blend. Heโs got feel for the objective and some of these subjectives.โ
This is what I asked for in my OPP! Now just sign Eloy to a cheap deal ๐
No more Jimenez, PLEASE! No mas, no mas!
I hope he asked for some better baseball players
swing and a miss
I wonder who paid.
“Can you cover this Will, I’m waiting on a big check from the taxpayers”
I’m not going to pay for Alinea’s, I’ll tell you that. I hear they have good burgers at McDonald’s. And President Trump says they don’t touch their fries with their hands.
Venable is the first member of Sox leadership in some time to have demonstrated the knowledge that baseball exists in Japan. I view this as a positive development. And if he understands a bit of Japanese baseball culture that can only help in the acquisition and management of a Japanese player.
I’m still baffled the Sox didn’t go after Seiya Suzuki.
Yea, you could say he ended up being too expensive but they were never even in the running so that doesn’t wash.
Too expensive for the pauper billionaires that own this team, yes.
He seems to have played up to the value of his contract so far.
It truly baffles me that Jerry’s horrendous custodianship of this team has been tolerated for this long. When he took over the White Sox were worth basically the same amount as the Cubs. Now, though both teams have grown in value by leaps and bounds, the Cubs as a franchise are valued over double what the White Sox are. Like, if I had a minority stake in the team, sure, I’m happy my initial investment has paid huge dividends, but I’m also questioning why another team in the same town with the same starting point that went through the chaos of multiple ownership changes has done twice as well.
Their tv situation is gonna to lower the value of the white sox too.
โBeyond that, I donโt know. Weโll see how it goes.โ
Hereโs a thing that Pedro would never have said. Itโs nice to see Venable doesnโt feel the need to have every answer.
A new manager and a “new system”? Yawn. Wake me when there’s a new owner.