The White Sox could use a savior, but Colson Montgomery could use more time

White Sox prospect Colson Montgomery
Colson Montgomery (Jim Margalus / Sox Machine)

Back in early May, James Fegan talked to Colson Montgomery and others about the slow start to his season in Charlotte, and nobody sounded worried. Montgomery chalked it up to the particular wrinkles of Triple-A — pitchers who trust their breaking balls a lot more and throw them in unintuitive counts, and the automated ball-strike system that turned good takes against him.

Sure enough, Montgomery’s production perked up over the remainder of the month. He hit .242/.340/.429 for May, and while he he left some room for improvement, particularly with regards to his strikeout rate, most players don’t solve all their issues in one fell swoop. Two, even three swoops would be fine.

Through four months, however, May still represents the high-water mark of Montgomery’s season. He hit .183/.321/.344 over June and July, which comprises 38 games and 159 plate appearances. He has just three multi-hit games over this stretch, and his strikeout rate is on the wrong side of 30 percent.

The evaluation industry is starting to react to Montgomery’s downturn, at least a little bit. He’s no longer the White Sox’s top prospect according to Baseball America. Its midseason revision put Noah Schultz ahead of him, while dropping Montgomery’s top-100 status from No. 15 to No. 34. More drastically, Montgomery wasn’t included in Keith Law’s Top 60 prospects, saying that he hasn’t been the same player since the back injury on either side of the ball.

But Montgomery still represented the White Sox in the Futures Game, and the team’s rhetoric around his struggles remains the same, so when the Knights were here in Nashville last week, my first priority was to sit back and watch Montgomery, doing my best to set aside my priors and simply see what I saw over six games.

Alas, it only turned out to be four. Montgomery sat on Wednesday, and Sunday’s game was rained out. A larger sample would’ve been appreciated, but I still managed to see enough of what his numbers have reflected to date.

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Author

  • Jim Margalus

    Writing about the White Sox for a 16th season, first here, then at South Side Sox, and now here again. Letโ€™s talk curling.

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David

Off-topic, but thereโ€™s really only one topic these days: The Sox should invite all surviving players from the 1962 Mets as guests of honor for the final home game this season.

asinwreck

Ed Kranepool, if activated, would be the White Sox best 1B option.

VaChisox

Too bad Marv Throneberry is no longer with us. He would have fit right in

Joliet Orange Sox

My favorite fact about Marv Throneberry is that his middle name was Eugene making his initials MET.

King Joffrey

I was a 10 year old living in Queens at the Metsโ€™ inception. Memory fades, but I seem to recall Casey Stengel being a lot more fun than Pedro.

VaChisox

I recall a story in which Stengel apologized to Throneberry on his birthday for not getting him a cake. He said, we would have liked to Marv but we were all afraid you were going to drop it.

Right Size Wrong Shape

Stengel liked to put on a show for the press, but he couldn’t be bothered to even learn most of his players’ names.

runsoxrun

He was also in his early 70s. The Sox did try hiring a manager even older.

phastphil

Savior? Saviors(plural) more like it. New manager would be great start.

ChiSportsDrummerMJ

hate to say it, but dont expect any new manager to change. Itll end up being someone Jerry is comfortable with…we know how that goes

John

New owner, new FO, new coaching staff, new conditioning staff, new players. Pretty much new everything save our pitching prospects.

HallofFrank

One question I’d have for Montgomery’s timeline is the same I have for several pitcher: is there an advantage to being in Chicago to continuing his development?

In normal circumstances (i.e., a team is competent and trying to win), you wouldn’t want a guy struggling in Chicago. But if he’s struggling in Charlotte and the MLB team is hopeless, would it help for him to start acclimation to MLB sooner rather than later? You get better access to resources, coaches, etc in Chicago, presumably. On the flip side, you may worry about his confidence or whatnot. It probably makes more sense to get the pitchers up (work with Bannister and Katz) sooner than Montgomery, but curious to see how they handle this.

MattyV415

Are there any examples of competently run organizations doing this, bringing up a prospect who has been objectively struggling to handle minor league competition in order to develop them at the major league level? It doesnโ€™t seem logical to increase the level of competition. If anything, I wish they had started Montgomery in Birmingham this year (and still think they should seriously consider sending Ramos back.)

HallofFrank

Competently run organizations usually aren’t playing completely worthless games.

MattyV415

Weโ€™ve seen competently executed rebuilds. Did Baltimore do this as they were rebuilding? (No.)

ChiSportsDrummerMJ

Baltimore’s FO also understood Ownership challenges well enough to work around that. They invested heavily in INT scouting, Player Development and AM Scouting as means to field a quality team while leveraging abundant talent in trades. White Sox get lucky with a prospect finding themselves on a ranking and bank on that to work out with no alternative plans. Same with FA. Also building winning mentalities in system helps. Sox haven’t seemed to care about that for decades until this year and Kannapolis while fun doesn’t strike me as rife with age appropriate talent. This feels like a long 10 years ahead. hope to be wrong though. Go Sox.

HallofFrank

I don’t know (I suspect you don’t either) but if one team didn’t do it, it doesn’t make it a bad idea. The conditions your asking for are surely quite rare:
(1) competently run organization example,
(2) when organization is playing completely useless games,
(3) top prospect is struggling in AAA but has played full season there, and
(4) top prospect (even if he plays horribly) is probably best internal option.

Have all four of those happened at the same time? I don’t know, but it doesn’t make it a bad idea.

MattyV415

I don’t see how it’s a logically good idea. Player struggles against inferior competition, and then you increase the difficulty level? And you cite access to better coaching in Chicago – really? With what coaches on the MLB staff are so you eager to have him work?

(4) top prospect (even if he plays horribly) is probably best internal option.

I strongly push back any notion that a promotion should be dictated by anything other than the prospect’s readiness and it being the correct step for his individual development. I can’t phrase it any better than Jim did below.

HallofFrank

I donโ€™t see how itโ€™s a logically good idea.

To be clear, I’m not saying it is a good idea but there are at least reasons to do it (as I’ve named) and it’s not an obviously bad idea. And like it or not, the guy who tried Project Birmingham is in charge of the whole show. It doesn’t seem like out of the question that he might try something similar, or that the same logic may prevaial.

I strongly push back any notion that a promotion should be dictated by anything other than the prospectโ€™s readiness and it being the correct step for his individual development.

Yes, I agree, though this is a rare case where “readiness” may not matter. Your second condition is more important, right? So for the sake of argument: what if you knew an early promotion for Colson would be good for his development? As you rightly sayโ€”he’s clearly not ready. But whether it’s good for his development or not is (or could be) a separate question. That’s the question I’m posing.

ForsterFTOG

Didn’t the Twins do this with multiple players in the mid 80’s?

Steve

I’ve seen some hitters that have improved moving from one level in the minors. That typically ends with AA (no improvements by moving from AA to AAA). My theory is that these are young hitters who are trying hard to impress and struggle with pitchers who can’t keep the ball around the plate. Starting in AA, nearly all pitchers regularly throw strikes.

HallofFrank

I’m not suggesting he’ll be better in MLB. I’m wondering if it’ll be better for his development being around the top coaches and whatnot.

As Cirensica

Some people bring the psychological impact of bringing a player to the Majors to struggle. Having said that, there is also a psychological impact for a touted player waiting to be called, and the call never materializes. Finding the balance is the key issue. I wouldn’t have any problems if Colson is called up, but I will have issues if Pedro is still directing the team.

Last edited 6 months ago by As Cirensica
MattyV415

I think the worry about not calling someone up is more about a player performing at a high level and being left in the minors, like when teams manipulate service time. I donโ€™t think Montgomery or anyone could make a reasonable case that heโ€™s earned a promotion through his performance this year.

Last edited 6 months ago by MattyV415
As Cirensica

That’s a good point. Time will tell what would happen. Future events are about the only thing interesting on this team.

HallofFrank

I guess another way to put what I’m asking: was Project Birmingham a good idea and, if so, would a “Project Chicago” have similar things going for it?

If you hated project Birmingham, then yeah this idea isn’t going to do it for you. But it’s a similar idea. Colson had a .484 OPS during Project Birmingham. Does that mean it was a bad idea? Did it hinder his development? I don’t know, maybe? But the dude who tried Project Birmingham is in charge of everything now with several prospects around the same timeline. Even if the results are putrid, he might prefer to get them together for the sake of development (for good or ill).

John

I think it’d be unwise. Colson struggled at AA at first, came back the next year and did much better. Some guys take a bit longer to develop. If he’s still struggling next year, I’ll be more worried. He’s only 22 and 4.5 years younger than average for AAA. I grant that with career minor leaguers, that’s not as huge a deal as it would be at AA, but there are still quite a few college prospects who are 24 or 25 in AAA. He’s still going up against guys with more experience who are a little more filled out physically.

texag10

Colson is like over a year younger than the average AA player if that makes any difference.

upnorthsox

Over half of the starting SS in the majors were already in the league at Colson’s age.

ForsterFTOG

Is he a year younger than the average top 10 player in AA?

John

Ky Bush is 24, in AA, and 0.6 years younger than average.

Right Size Wrong Shape

Ky Bush is in AAA.

John

Sorry. Was looking at his stats in AA. He was 0.6 years younger and is 24, though, so the point is still valid. Last year, when he was in AA, Colson was younger than average by 2.7 years. Assumedly, that means he’s roughly 1.7 years younger than the average AA player now, but still in AAA. So you’re right in your correction, but the point is he’s still young for his level. And he’d be young even for AA. There’s time for him to correct this, so I’m not sure why so many people are souring on him.

upnorthsox

If .6 year younger makes a difference then he’s a bust and there’s no point in talking about him anymore.

ChiSportsDrummerMJ

Love the White Sox, but have a hard time believing any prospects will pan out for them. The guys who have been here longer than 2 years are already tarnished with poor direction. the new players have an uphill battle. This isn’t the franchise that sends players up who look ready to be there. Generally just hype and then quick falls from grace with little left after being demoralized by White Sox culture. Hope I’m wrong but kind of expect Montgomery to be another name in a long list of miss evaluations/development malpractice. Is what it is. Go Sox

LeftistLefty-Righty

I think at this point if the trend continues and Montgomery doesnโ€™t pan out it would have more to do with the back injury he suffered than missed evaluation or developmental malpractice

MattyV415

Why not both?

Probably right, I’m just basing it on an all things considered with the White Sox concept. Player development historically felt like they acquired a player, gave them a check and that should be enough motivation. Sounds different now, but too little to late to redeem anything over the next decade ahead. Injuries play a part with every player at some point, sucks and can be hard to overcome but part of sports. Injuries are a classic Reinsdorfian excuse to convince fans to settle for less and be ok with it imo.

vanillablue

The Sox as an organization seem totally unable to change their plans midstream. Let’s presume that Montgomery’s struggles this year are related to his back injury. Why keep running him out there every day to struggle at the plate while playing the most physically demanding position in the infield? Give him some time off, play him at 1B or OF a bit, or just bite the bullet and have him go down to Birmingham to get his confidence back. But instead of doing that, they are running the risk of permanently harming his development if he develops chronic back problems or bad habits from trying to compensate. It’s the same thing at every level of the org, they just keep doing the same thing over and over again as the results get worse and worse.

David

He has to be a better outfielder than Vaughn or Sheets, right?

As Cirensica

The Sox as an organization seem totally unable to change their plans midstream. 

100%. One of the White Sox biggest problems and Pedro Grifol exacerbated it. I don’t know why the White Sox are so slow to identify failure or a problem. It is short of amazing. They design a strategy, and they stick to it even though the “strategy” has its fangs sank in their necks sucking their life.

  • We could go back to Paul Konerko’s final years, but examples from recent times abound.
  • Tim Anderson was clearly floundering, but Mr. “I haven’t even thought about it” kept him high in the order.
  • Andrew Vaughn has been an abject failure, yet, they stick to him and probably will give him another year.
  • Gavin Sheets is still playing in RF in 2024 for fuck sakes.
  • Several players in the active roster with glaring injuries or rehabbing “in the bench”
  • Benintendi’s putrid bat keeps finding him at the top of the line up by Mr. “I won’t overreact”.
  • Eloy “groundout” Jimenez?
  • A roster full of 1B/DH for years, and the genius of Grifol demanding a 3rd catcher.
  • Uncapable to hit right hand pitchers.
  • Players out of position on a constant basis.

They are inflexible. They are unable to recognize when something is not working and try a different approach. It is short of amazing how the White Sox keep struggling for years to solve RF, a problem that would be easy solvable by, you know, signing an actual outfielder which they did with Kevin Pillar (fWAR of 1.1), but released him in favor of more slow bad fielders. Did I mention that Gavin Sheets is still logging time as a RFer?

It is so hard to be a fan of … [wild hand gestures]…. this.

ChiSportsDrummerMJ

uh huh. Only thing I enjoy more that the Solo Shot Sox offense approach, is the single inning offense we are all familiar enough with. Think it says something about the lack of details and adjustments made within the organization to you know, find winning formulas with the players they have. Instead, force the issue until the money is off the books or hope the lone decent prospects killing in low a ball can be rushed up as “the next thing” when they aren’t ready or really that. Cheers

PaleHoseBZ38

I’d happily take the Solo Shot offense nowadays.

Foulkelore

Gavin Sheets not playing RF anymore is my new litmus test for if the organization is even starting to become healthy. It doesn’t mean that it is healthy once that happens, but I know that it is defintiely not healthy if he’s still being put out in RF.

Wayne

Him or Vaughn could go to AAA (or both). Then we can play OF in the OF

Foulkelore

Your idea of playing outfielders in the outfield is intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Wayne

NIck and Nicky should not be getting much (if any) playing time in MLB either. If Vargas is going to move to the IF for the White Sox 2025, play him their now. Baldwin at SS and Sosa at non-Vargas IF spot.

bobsquad

I have a hunch that Gavin Sheets’s “heel contusion” is either a bigger problem than his lack of IL stint suggests, or there is some other injury at play.

wRC+ before injury on 6/26: 112 (276 PAs)
wRC+ after injury: -12 (75 PAs)

wRC+ not playing OF: 111 (192 PAs)
wRC+ while playing OF: 54 (159 PAs)

Last edited 6 months ago by bobsquad
Jeffrey

The worst thing about Sheets playing RF is that heโ€™s better out there than Andrew Vaughn was. Weโ€™ve seen unimaginable horrors, my friends.

upnorthsox

Sadly he’s better in RF than 2021 Adam Eaton.

JazznFunk

Am I mistaken or were there times when Eaton was literally unable to stand upright or move without falling over?

upnorthsox

Your memory serves you well, he also had a hard time getting back up.

Jeffrey

2016 Eaton, OTOH, was a revelation in right. Heโ€™d been a good CF, but he was outstanding when he was moved to the corner. He turned a lot of doubles into singles.

upnorthsox

Yes, hard to believe they were the same person. Looking back, 2021 Eaton was a massive failure by the pro scouting dept who also failed with Kuechel and Cesar Hernandez that year along with not identifying any suitable replacements in the OF. Among Hahn’s many failings, the inability to self scout may have been his biggest.

StockroomSnail

Pedro goes by geological time, which makes sense in the timelessness caused by suffering I suppose.

lifelongjd

I think the kid has a solid chance to be pretty good. Itโ€™s always difficult to adjust to things mid season and this is probably the first time heโ€™s ever had to change his approach or go outside his comfort zone. Itโ€™s reassuring heโ€™s not panicking and has kept his patience at the plate, but this offseason is a critical one for him. I would think he will spend a lot of time working on offspeed pitches and a new approach to outer areas of the zone.

BenwithVen

The org just needs a complete overhaul in how they develop hitters. They seem be targeting guys with good zone judgement which is good, but they still seem way behind other teams when it comes to optimizing swings.

Greg Nix

This.

Letโ€™s face it: if they canโ€™t figure out an organizational philosophy that successfully develops hitters, nothing else they do really matters.

Wayne

100% this. But hitting is different than pitching, right? We need a hitting Bannister. But does that really work? I am not sure. Time to try it.

StockroomSnail

Pitcher whispering is much easier than hitter whispering, since pitchers have huge advantages.

I don’t think there are too many great hitting developers, and if they exist Jerry can’t afford them.

upnorthsox

You don’t need a hitting whisperer to have an organizational hitting philosophy. It starts with the GM or owner who prioritizes a certain type of hitter or hitting style, then the scouts who find those kind hitters, the developmental squad who preaches it, the coaching staff who enforces it, and finally the players who adhere and embrace it.

Adam

I agree with this. And the hard part for people to accept is it takes time. I think this is one of the reasons why we havenโ€™t seen Colas. We all know Grifol hates him, I think Getz hates him just as much. Back when he was in AA his coaches would talk about how he wouldnโ€™t really take to coaching cause he hadnโ€™t failed. The coaches were trying to prepare him, but as long as he was crushing it, he didnโ€™t want to listen. Getz was leading development at that point. I think that is why now heโ€™s targeting a different type. They want good starting point with coachability.

Another thing people should realize is Colson is not alone. Itโ€™s not like the top 100 is shooting through the moon leaving him behind. Itโ€™s about 50/50 at best. A lot are struggling. Ethan Salas is 6 overall hitting .195 in A ball. The Guards #1 pick Delauter is barely hitting .200 at AA. Just go to the top 100 page, click on hitters stats and see who is shining. Itโ€™s a lot on projection for everyone. Struggles are anticipated. Itโ€™s whether or not scouts think they can/will adjust

Wayne

And 1 single philosophy needs to be higher OBP. But that can include lots of types of hitters: lofting power hitters, slap hitters, 3 true outcomes, ball in play, etc.

Greg Nix

There are definitely orgs good at coaching up hitters. Rays and Dodgers come to mind, because theyโ€™re good at everything. The difference with hitters is that itโ€™s usually a years long process, not a โ€œtry this one neat trick!โ€

Wayne

Bannister seems to be more flexible than “one neat trick”. But as pitchers have the ball, it is easier to work on one or two specific things to help them get to a spot. I am guessing it is harder with hitting. But hire a Rays or Dodgers guy and let him help transform the system. (Similar to how Brewers seem to get more out of catcher defense).

mrridgman

That’s IF any of the talented ones would be willing to come to the WS show. At least for next year, it’s going to be difficult for the Sox to attract any talent, admin coaches and players.

jacob

I do wonder how much of some of those organizations’ successes are based on development versus better talent evaluation. If your system is filled with guys who just don’t have what it takes, it doesn’t matter how you coach them. If your system is filled with guys who do have what it takes, all you have to do is stay out of their way.

Greg Nix

Itโ€™s both. The Sox have had plenty of major league quality athletes, though. And outsiders believed in Eloy, Vaughn, and now Montgomery just as much as the organization did. Itโ€™s pretty obvious theyโ€™re bad at helping talented hitters over any sort of major hurdle AND finding ways to maximize lower quality talent.

JazznFunk

Development, talent evaluation plus coachability – as in, is this a guy we can work with and who has a clue how the game of baseball works

a-t

Some early Moncada-like issues, I think, which tracks with what Iโ€™ve seen. He needs to be more aggressive and hitterish, looking not just for mistakes, but looking for decently-executed pitches in predictable locations.

GrinnellSteve

A question for Jim: It’s 11:51 on an off day. The Sox have lost 17 in a row. Why haven’t you posted the article about Pedro being fired?

ChiSportsDrummerMJ

As much as this made me laugh, my guess is when the news comes, it will shortly be followed by a rumor of someone not qualified or ready to be manager of this current dysfunctional gobbledygook of a franchise. Go Sox

upnorthsox

If not today, when? Does he survive if this goes to 0-23 with a sweep in Oakland? If they don’t beat the cubs where does it stop, in San Fran? At that point it’d be a national story, maybe even a death countdown. Could he really survive with the entire nation watching? You think it’s a shitshow now but it could get oh so much worse.

GrinnellSteve

Every day it doesn’t happen I wonder if Getz is waiting for the streak to end just so the interim guy owns no piece of it. Let it all be on Pedro’s head.

As Cirensica

That has to be the only explanation: rewarding Pedro by being the manager that broke the most consecutive losses in the history of baseball. Prediction: Pedro will be fired the day after the White Sox win a game to break the current loss streak.

Last edited 6 months ago by As Cirensica
John

Sadly, this is Jerry we’re talking about here. He put up with Kenny and Hahn for years and years despite very limited success. He also doesn’t like paying guys to not work for him.

I hope as much as anyone that GS is right here, but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me for Grifol to finish out this season.

PaleHoseBZ38

I can buy this.

JimMargalusBiggestFan

James,

Weโ€™ve seen teams like the Red Sox implement a weighted-bat program throughout the organization, weโ€™ve seen the Dodgers basically mandate certain players go to Driveline in the off-season, the Royals redid their player development program on the hitting side a few years ago

What is the plan in this organization? Are they seeking to hire a Brian Bannister-type to oversee hitting? Merely replacing Andy Barkett doesnโ€™t seem like enough. What is the vision for player development on the hitting side to stem the tide of hitting prospects either no developing at all or stalling in the high minors?

mrridgman

An interesting question. It would be nice to see a comparison of the various hitting coaches/instructors from last year to this.

John

Their chase rates and proclivity to hammer the ball into the ground are their biggest problems, imo. A couple years ago, when they struggled to .500, I looked at their team stats for hitting. They were above average in exit velo, and if memory serves, in barrel rate and a couple other important metrics. But I believe they were last or near last in chase rate and launch angle. I also believe those two are related. If you’re reaching to put a ball in play, you’re probably not getting a liner over the 2B’s head that goes for a double.

Sox also need to see more pitches. I’m tired of seeing our starters’ pitch count at 96 through 6 (which isn’t that bad, really) and then the opponent’s SP is at 72 pitches through 6. Sox need to learn how to take pitches, foul off tough pitches, and be more patient overall. It’ll get other teams to take out their starters earlier and possibly lead to a more tired pen by the end of a series.

Baseballnut

The plan should include hiring a new domestic and international scouting department. There is something amiss in the type of hitters the White Sox scout.

bobsquad

There’s also something amiss in their management of bonus pool money. If Spotrac is spot-on with their international bonuses, they’ve left $1.6 million (27% of total pool) unspent.

Baseballnut

I have the feeling, given their track record, they would spend it on the wrong players.

bobsquad

However bad their scouting is, they need to find a way to exhaust their pool on lottery tickets and building relationships. $1.7MM across 5 years got them Fernando Tatis, Lenyn Sosa, Bryan Ramos, Cristian Mena, and Jose Rodriguez.

upnorthsox

They are keeping a stash in case some 30-something Cuban wants to come out of retirement.

okiesoxfan

Where is the article that compares the Sox to the Bulls? For instance: both teams have major issues with roster construction and lack an ability to evaluate talent. Draft selections and trades appear to be a problem for both teams. Unfortunately, the Sox are the worse team and itโ€™s not even close.

MattyV415

Yeah, front offices for both teams are totally incompetent. Until Jerry died or violates his self-imposed cap on what heโ€™s willing to pay individual players, recent Bulls teams are probably best-case scenario for the Sox: .500ish, maybe on the fringes on the play-in/wild card, but with no real path to actual contending.

Last edited 6 months ago by MattyV415
itaita

Bulls problem is they cant stay healthy (Along with Jerry not spending money and not wanting to go into the luxury tax). The Levine/DeRozen duo looked really good when Lonzo was there to move the ball around and provide high tier defense. And the Sox wished they had a development like Coby White. Even a guy like Ayo has been a solid NBA player. Along with guys like Butler who was a mid round pick that turned into a superstar. The Bulls have been much better at player development then the Sox with a (imo) high tier coach in Donovan. There’s just that one anchor that sinks both of them to completely fill out the rosters with vets and FA.

GrinnellSteve

At this point I’d be fine with naming Montgomery the player-manager. Boudreau was only 24 when he took over.

Wayne

Sheets and Vaughn do not belong in MLB right now. I would send Vargas to1B, and let Fletcher and Colas play corner OF and DH. Start rotating these guys and figure some shit out. Elko may pass them all.

Warren Z

If Elko is still hitting reasonably well in Triple-A over the next few weeks, I wouldn’t mind calling him up in September. If Vaughn and Sheets have their playing time reduced and get their feelings hurt, well, tough crap.

ForsterFTOG

They can get in the “my feelings are hurt” line behind Getz and the front office.

JazznFunk

If this is true…

Comparing WAR figures across eras is silly because of the evolution of defensive metrics, but the White Sox are already four times worse by total position-player WAR than any other team this millennium. There is a good chance that a random group of Triple-A players would have produced a better year.

https://slate.com/culture/2024/07/baseball-chicago-white-sox-trades-worst-mlb-team-ever.html

then let’s see what a bunch of AAA guys can do

ForsterFTOG

Their position players are wildly unathletic and slow for 2024 MLB.
Except for Robert, Corey Lee seems to be the fastest player on the team.

Are the minor league players any different?

As Cirensica

Baldwin is not slow. Newly acquired Vargas runs pretty well too.

bobsquad

Go ahead and pencil Cristian Pache into the lineup, given that his glove is better than any outfielder’s in the system and his barely-rosterable OBP is *sigh* .017 points higher than the 2024 White Sox as a team.

John

Well, so long as our offense is going to suck, might as well get the games over with a little quicker. Normally, Pache would be a defensive-replacement 4th OF, but on this team, he’d be their 2nd best OF.

ForsterFTOG

Poor Heston Kjerstad.
Imagine what being replaced by Eloy does to your psyche.

Last edited 6 months ago by ForsterFTOG
ParisSox

Saw Kjerstad pinch hit in the game I attended. He looked lost at the plate. Very easy out. He struck out on 3 pitches.

Adam

Lost at the plate Kjerstad has played 28 games this year. 5 extra base hits, 3 homers, 12 rbi, 0.3 war for the year.

Last 28 games Eloy has 3 extra base hits, 0 homers, 4 rbi, -0.7 war for the year.

Eloy has played 40 more games than Kjerstad yet has a 16-12 rbi advantage. This is due to Kjerstad having a .333/.429/.721 risp split while Eloy has .200/.339/.260.

If Heston is lost then Eloy is marooned on another galaxy

John

I’m not bothered by that in the least. I mean, even Holliday, who’s the consensus better prospect, looked overmatched when he was first brought up. I think he’ll still be fine and I’d have been happy if he were the centerpiece for a Crochet trade.

Warren Z

With the trade-deadline disappointments, the stalled development of most of our top prospects in the minors and the historic losing streak at the MLB level, July of 2024 has to be the second-worst month in franchise history. It only ranks behind September 1920, when the Black Sox scandal destroyed a championship-level team and set the franchise back decades.

In The Athletic this morning, some executives from other teams heavily criticized what Getz did during the deadline and how we got so little return in that three-way deal in a seller’s market. So, for those of us who were wonder WTF Getz was doing, apparently several of his front-office peers in the industry were wondering that, too.

I know it’s been just two games, but Vargas has looked pathetic so far. No wonder the Dodgers were so eager to give him up. Perhaps he will be another in a long line of players suddenly forgetting how to do simple baseball tasks once they come here. Unfortunately, that’s what it looks like so far with him. Let’s hope he figures out how to play soon.

And it’s weird how DeJong, who had been a disaster while trying to play third base for us, makes good plays on defense there once he joins Kansas City. And then there was Pham hitting a grand slam once he joins the Cardinals.

I wouldn’t be surprised if our losing streak reaches 30 games, to be honest. We have trouble winning in Minnesota even when we have had good teams, and Oakland is playing pretty well these days. We couldn’t even beat the Cubs when we had four-run leads on consecutive nights earlier this season, so Grifool probably will blow both of those games, and the Yankees and Astros likely will crush us.

If anybody can lose 30 in a row, Grifool can.

bobsquad

Hey now, at least no one was shot at the ballpark in July 2024.

ChiSportsDrummerMJ

Best point I’ve heard about July so far. Cheers

Wayne

He said they were in the eye of the storm on this 17 game losing streak. That means we have 17 more for a 34 game losing streak.

Joliet Orange Sox

Meteorological storms are named in alphabetical order each season. The Sox losing streak storms are all named Jerry.

Last edited 6 months ago by Joliet Orange Sox
Joliet Orange Sox

comment image

In a tribute to the White Sox offense, the most recent storm named Jerry wasn’t powerful and didn’t hit anything.

Last edited 6 months ago by Joliet Orange Sox
JazznFunk

This came off as key

โ€œIn general, I feel this way,โ€ said one rival exec. โ€œAs a buyer, Iโ€™m always trying to get people to package things together. But as a seller, you almost never want to do that.โ€

So howโ€™d that happen? The White Sox had to agree to it. And John Mozeliak and the Cardinals front office did an excellent job of driving it in their own direction. But Friedman, the Dodgersโ€™ president of baseball operations, just has this way of spinning that sort of three-team magic. And his fellow execs canโ€™t help but applaud it.

โ€œAndrew always knows how to find a way to extract the talent that heโ€™s looking for,โ€ said one NL exec, โ€œeven if the match isnโ€™t quite there with the team heโ€™s trying to extract the talent from.โ€

Might be a rookie GM who got lulled into a direction and didn’t know to pivot. A concern I had was Getz had too much on his plate. And if true, it may have also resulted in not pulling the trigger on a Crochet deal if there was in fact a good one available.

BenwithVen

He absolutely got taken advantage of by more experienced GMs. Hopefully he learns from it (doubtful with TLR “advising” him)

runsoxrun

Even in September 1920 they went 18-8. I mean, sure it didn’t end well, but …

Went from 96 wins in 1920 to 62 in 1921.

This year’s team is on pace for 39 wins, 22 fewer than last season’s 61-101.

GrinnellSteve

Kopech struck out the side in his Dodgers debut. Pham is 4 for 6 with a homer, double and 6 RBIs for the Cards. DeJong is 1 for 3 with a walk and a run for the Royals. Banks pitched a perfect 7-pitch 8th inning for the Phillies. Fedde and Jimenez have yet to appear for their new clubs. Vargas is 0 for with 3 strikeout for the Sox.

Early days, but it’s depressing to see in such stark relief.

Right Size Wrong Shape

*0 for 8

GrinnellSteve

Thanks. My head was going too fast for my fingers. Yes, 0 for 8 for Vargas.

mrridgman

Actually 0 for is accurate as well.

JazznFunk

As Pillar showed, there can be a honeymoon period where guys getting away from this debacle can walk on air

John

Small sample size, but it’s amazing how much better people perform when they’re happy. For a baseball player, it seems like there’s little that would make a player happier at the deadline than getting off this team to go to a contender.

Last edited 6 months ago by John
DocGreedo

Man, I know it sucks to be a White Sox fan but being an Angels fan has to be nearly as bad. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/08/mike-trout-done-for-the-year-due-to-meniscus-tear.html

They spend money in the stupidest ways.

John

I don’t think the Trout deal was stupid at the time. It was viewed as a significant hometown discount. I thought the Rendon deal was dumb at the time, but even then, they got snakebit with him. One of the biggest issues is they kept getting bats and forgot that pitching matters, too. I largely agree with you on spending stupidly, but I think the Trout deal was fine at the time; it just didn’t go well.

upnorthsox

Rendon is tough because he just took the money and quit but it’s also a good but expensive lesson in that if you are giving someone $300 mil you be damn sure they are willing to work for it.

Joliet Orange Sox

I recognize that Rendon has not produced for the Angels and he has missed a huge amount of time with what has been publicly announced as injuries. Your post states that he just quit. Do we know the injuries weren’t real or is this speculation on your part?

I’m always reluctant to question a professional athlete’s injury situation. They do a job that is very difficult to do when injured. I’m sure some have just quit but I also think many have been hurt and accused of quitting.

It’s not like most of our lives where essentially effort alone determines success. I can do my job when not at my best. Other posters could all do my job. I could do most of their jobs (not the ones that require a talent like writing or performing). Professional athletes are in a very different situation.

vanillablue

“Quit” is probably too strong, but Rendon has been vocal about how baseball is a job to him and he doesn’t have the passion for the game that he did when he was younger. Maybe defensible in isolation but given his injuries and underperformance since getting the big bucks, most fans aren’t going to cut him any slack.

StockroomSnail

Yeah this feels like something Jerry would cite when asked to spend

HallofFrank

As unlucky as they’ve been, I refuse to accept a fanbase who’s watched Mike Trout for a decade+ and Ohtani for several years even sniffs the misery of Sox fans.

John

In today’s “Fun Facts About How Much the Sox Suck”:
If you extrapolated their records vs any division, interleague play, RHP, or LHP over the course of a full season, they’d still be the worst team in baseball.

They are:
7-16 (.304) against the AL East
8-31 (.205) against the AL Central
2-12 (.143) against the AL West
10-25 (.286) in Interleague
21-70 (.231) against RHP
6-14 (.300) against LHP

The next worst team in baseball is the Rockies at a .358 overall winning percentage.

Sox also have the worst records in the AL against each breakdown, except the Twins who are 5-13 against the East (.278), so we got that going for us. Also, the Marlins are an abysmal 6-30 against LHP (.167), so woohoo…Other than that, Sox are worst in every breakdown. Starting pitching aside, there’s literally nothing I can think of that this team does even competently, let alone well.

Baseballnut

For their historic futility, they will be rewarded with the tenth pick in the 2025 draft. At least they will have the highest odds for the #1 pick in the 2026 draft.

upnorthsox

At least they will have the highest odds for the #1 pick in the 2026 draft.

How so? We’ll be picking 5th again in a 3 player draft.

PauliePaulie

To those saying he was awesome in AA and AZ, because โ€œba avg. doesnโ€™t matterโ€, this is what I was saying about only being able to hit mistakes. And not only would he see fewer mistakes as he climbed the ranks, but better pitchers would not fear him and throw more strikes, negating his excellent k zone judgement.
Heโ€™s in HUGE trouble. Probably needs a swing rework the Sox arenโ€™t capable of teaching.
Keep an eye on how many hitters the Sox are acquiring with scouting reports mentioning issues with fastballs above the belt.

a-t

he had a .400 OBP with a respectable ISO at AA. that matters vastly more than a .244 AVG.

the issue is less โ€œonly hitting mistakesโ€ as it is โ€œonly *swinging at* mistakesโ€. those are different things.

BenwithVen

Shumaker has all but said that he mostly cares about winning and part of the reason why he left the Marlins is because they plan on rebuilding. So I doubt he’d leave one bad situation for a worse one.

Sadly, whoever it’s going to be will probably be the cheapest option. That much I can basically guarantee