White Sox trade Lance Lynn, Joe Kelly to Dodgers
To hear Lance Lynn tell is, the White Sox wouldn’t tell him which location the moving boxes he purchased would be heading.
To hear Joel Sherman, Bob Nightengale and others tell it, he’s going to the Dodgers in the White Sox’s second package deal of the deadline period, because the Dodgers will also be reunited with Joe Kelly.
The White Sox received Double-A starter Nick Nastrini, Double-A reliever Jordan Leasure, and Trayce Thompson of all people.
Nastrini has some fans — particularly Baseball Prospectus, which ranked him No. 54 on its top 101 prospects list after striking out 127 batters over 86⅓ innings for High-A Great Lakes. He also walked 39 and gave up 12 homers, and those weaknesses followed him to Double-A, while the strikeout rate has taken a step back (85 batters over 73 ⅔ innings). Nastrini ranked No. 9 on the Dodgers’ top 30 list on MLB Pipeline on the strength of a mid-90s fastball, and a slider and curve with excellent spin rates. Control was the question in terms of his viability as a starter, but Keith Law said his delivery is clean enough to maintain hope.
Speaking of strikeouts, Leasure has 56 K’s over 35 innings at Tulsa, with decent-enough periperhals elsewhere resulting in a 3.06 ERA.
As for Thompson, he’s back where he started, but he comes back to the White Sox hitting .155/.310/.366 with 37 strikeouts over 86 plate appearances for the Dodgers this year. We’ll see whether he balances roster spots, or what else the Sox have in mind.
In the meantime, the White Sox added Declan Cronin to the 40-man and 26-man roster.
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Good lord in heaven Hahn traded for Tracy Thompson and I’m sure he did it with a straight face.
I wonder if Rick Hahn has learned more about Trayce Thompson.
If he was pissed about Hahn trading him, he will be even more pissed now that Hahn has traded for him.
You’re coming home! Oregon Illinois isn’t too far from Chicago, kid!
Good for Lance. I liked him as he was one if the few players to show passion. Kelly annoyed ne due to his seemingly frequent melt downs
Lynn’s complaining to the media when he in fact sucked and screaming at Super Joe annoyed me.
The trademark surliness was charming when he was good and very irritating when he was bad
I never found it charming. Anyone that calls out other teammates on the field is a loser.
It was kind of showing up the fans I thought. The Sox are bad. We know the organization has many problems. But when you’re making $18 million a year, just shut up and say nice things like Gio did.
From what I read, he said nice things about the fans, more or less.
I can’t fault a guy for being unhappy with the organization we are all unhappy with. Plus, these guys are all individuals with their own personalities that come through in these situations, which I think is fine.
Don’t stop now, Rick! Keep those trades coming. Need a lot of new blood in here.
Thanks for the perspective Jim. Appreciate the content…As far as the trades, I get using “position of strength” like their pitching to acquire prospects, but I dont know how excited I am to see the same position group out there given how the defense and offense looks. So while these new players may or may not work out, I absolutely will laugh when I hear Hahn say “We expect to contend in 2024” with the same lineup basically and no FA help and no system help with the pitchers…
Seems like a reasonable return. I’m not sure I understand the Thompson acquisition though. It seems to me that it’s time to see what they have in Colas. Or (I’m thinking out loud now) maybe they will return Colas to the minors to get him more minor league reps. Why he didn’t try to steal second base with no one holding him on in the 9th last night tells me he needs to work a bit on the mental aspect of the game…
No reason to send Colas back to AAA. He handles that well. It’s time to give him an extended look at major league pitching.
I can’t disagree, which just leads me to question why they felt the need to get Thompson back. If memory serves, he had a nice little run with us for a bit, especially vs. LHP. Struggled a bit vs. RHP if I recall…
Probably because Pedro wants to platoon Colas….which in itself is a fireable offense.
Agree. They rushed him because he had a good spring but he clearly wasn’t ready. The season has been a lost cause since May, now is the time to let him play on the big club and let him make mistakes and learn from them. Ripping a rookie for mistakes when the vets are just as bad seems kind of low-class to me.
I’m sure he was just a throw-in, as its likely he was about to be DFA’d by the Dodgers. We’ll see how long the Sox decide to keep him.
Stoney throwing a tantrum over Colas last night pissed me off. He’s clearly a rookie who’s scared to make a mistake right now. His manager just benched him a few days ago because he was playing to hard and had to dial it down a few notches or something.
If they wanted Colas on second, maybe Daryl Boston could have walked up to him and said, “Hey Oscar, steal second.” But I never hear any criticism of Daryl Boston whenever something like that happens.
Criticism of Daryl Boston is warranted.
My gut says Boston is around because he probably has something on someone in the org….that is really the only explanation, since performance certainly wouldnt warrant a gig still. Otherwise, its just simply lazy to keep him employed, which vary well could be true too
He’s Kenny’s buddy.
So laziness, dammit really was hoping for a good ole conspiracy
And KW must have more than something on someone. He’s in his 23rd year of doing whatever it is that he does.
More like kenny’s eyes and ears
Trayce is on the 60-DL so he’s not taking up a roster spot. Probably just a throw-in to even up a few dollars.
That makes sense.
He just began a rehab assignment
Part of me thinks/hopes Andrus gets DFA’s when Trayce is able to return and can help Colas defensively; I can’t think of one outfielder Boston has helped improve.
Gavin Sheets, maybe? Oh, you said outfielder.
The white sox always go back for seconds, no matter how bad the buffet.
The pitching staff has almost no one left, and no legit help coming from the minors. They’ll be lucky to win 60 this year.
Leury is already on the payroll.
i realize this is profoundly irrational. But of everything the Sox have done in recent memory, I somehow find this fact the most triggering.
Is Josh Harrison available?
getting back Trayce is a great bit, I’m a fan.
Nastrini seems like our type. Huge stuff, questionable command. Real prospect tho, so that’s a good get for the Lynn/Kelly wonder duo.
I wonder if Jerry is making an excited phone call to Arturas Karnisovas right now to tell him that they acquired Klay Thompson for practically nothing!
To get the Dodgers 9th rated prospect for Lynn/Kelly, I’ll take it. I could just as easily have seen them getting nothing for either. I don’t particularly think either is a good bet to help the Dodgers.
Dodgers’ bullpen is shockingly bad on the front end, so I think Kelly is a good bet to help them there. Lynn will at least eat innings, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they make him more effective.
I wish we would have included Hahn in the deal for one of their young executives.
lol no kidding! I’ve said for a couple years they should poach people from the Dodgers or Rays. Hire at least one good person from either org, find out what the hell they are doing that is so drastically different than what the clowns in the Sox minor league system are.
We only hire from the best orgs. Like the royals
Good trade. The product should be more watchable when it is a bunch of AAA players trying to hold on to a MLB contract than disgruntled veterans on a very underperforming team.
I’m genuinely looking forward to it. With the outlook recently, I’ve had a bizarre wave of nostalgia for the 2018-19 squads, who were obviously bad but the exiting youngsters and mirage of a bright future meant the good things were appreciated but the losing didn’t hurt.
Pretty brutal when you best team memories are following prospect rankings. Nice work Jerry and Company.
Well, the best team memory of recent vintage was the field of dreams game, which was a) genuinely great but b) sad that it’s the peak lol
Yeah that was a lot of fun
Didn’t we watch that 4 and 5 years ago?
You can see the coaches of the future collect negative WAR today!
Gotta hand it to Hahn- he’s traded 4 expiring contracts. Only Middleton and Grandal remain.
and Andrus… tho he’s not worth even a full bucket of balls
I’m surprised Grandal wasn’t traded to Milwaukee.
Graveman to Houston.
A few days ago some were estimating Hahn would only trade 1 or 2 players because he overvalues his guys and he can’t multitask. He’s up to 5 now. I thought he’d part with 7.
Yay. He’s doing his job.
No, he is not. He is cleaning his mess. That’s not his job.
I was definitely skeptical. Maybe Kenny went into his office to wake him up with “What are we waiting for?” Don’t stop now boys.
Waiting to see what Miami offers for Anderson.
We’ll see if the Sox threw in some money or took a lesser prospect
Yordan Alvarez, come on down!
Former Golden Bear catcher Korey Lee is the return. I wonder if Hahn asked Andrew Vaughn for a scouting report.
Strong Sam Abbott vibes.
Kenny loves him those two-sport athletes like himself. With the same career results.
Hahn did ask Vaughn about Lee.
I don’t find this depth of scouting encouraging. And I am mistaken in thinking the Sox routinely rely on whoever is playing 1B to determine fit
It’s just another data point. GM’s do that sort of thing all the time.
…..nothing wrong with talking with Vaughn as a courtesy, but I hope they aren’t really relying on that.
Korey Lee! Let’s go!
Well, Graveman isn’t on an expiring contract. I can’t say I’m sorry to see him go though. Of course Hahn seems like he is being allowed to embark on a retooling which is not the direction we should be going.
Catcher Korey Lee is the return. Strong arm and power, not a good hit tool. Is currently on the Fangraphs top 100, but probably falling off soon. Injured.
I’ll take it. At least the Sox unloaded some guys, and got some decent prospects. I’m shocked they got the Dodgers 9th prospect for Kelly/Lynn. That’s a miracle, imo.
Their moves the past two days are way the hell better than doing nothing and getting nothing.
Couldn’t agree more. I think we’re all tired of seeing this team in its current form. I think that is a great return for those two as well. Kelly might return to form down the road, but Lance is probably finished.
Kelly drove me nuts, the ultimate symbol of Hahn’s doofusness! It would be hard to find worse performance from any reliever on a 2 year 17M deal.
Although I agree, the bullpen was SO bad the year before they had to spend the money there. I never liked Kelly with StL, or Bos so I wasn’t happy when Hahn signed him but I understood it. And TLaR probably had something to do with it.
A good front office should be able to put together a good bullpen without spending much money. Especially when you already have a celebrity closer under contract.
A good front office. What a concept.
I think Hahn has done ok the past couple days though, at least. Very happy they got rid of 5 players and some actual prospects coming back. Hopefully more to come.
Sounds like our starting catcher tomorrow when Yaz is dealt.
OH MY GOD! WE’RE HAVING A FIRE…sale.
Lee instantly becomes their starting catcher.
I thought he was hurt?
Why would that stop them?
I hate to defend Dumb & Dumber, but did Lynn expect to be involved in trade negotiations or something? Just wild to be pissy about not being told anything when there was likely nothing to share that was concrete.
Anyway, decent return. I like Kelly and Lynn and hope they can turn it around for the Dodgers.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall for that reunion between Trayce and Rick, though.
Lynn is either lying or a first-class jerk. He had a no-trade to LA, so they had to have told him or else he ok’d it weeks ago which means he knew he was on the block. Why would they tell him something if there wasn’t a deal close?
Does Hahn have a vacation planned this weekend or something? Getting all his work done early it seems.
He’s resigning when this is over.
Nastrini is No.10 Dodgers Prospect on Baseball America as well.
I’m blown away that they got even that much value from Kelly/Lynn. I mean I guess it’s not that big a deal, but still. Only an intellectual colossus could pull off such a deal!
Okay so Hahn is actually at one thing: he knows how to get good prospect returns when the team is selling. Now if he could just figure the building a winning team part out.
Yeah, he has done very well so far. Gotta give him credit for that.
He’s done well getting prospects because he utterly failed at building a major league team that could consistently win.
I’m not saying he should keep his job, but he at least does one thing reasonably well. No way he should have gotten another chance to do this though.
Never
The one thing that’s probably kept him in a job.
He knows how to read BA/BP top prospect lists. He’s shown no ability to get a player who isn’t well known by the industry and produce productive players out of those guys.
That’s a very interesting take. Getting Moncada and Kopech looked great according to prospect lists, but they would have been better off with Devers. I wonder if Hahn just looks for guys highly ranked on the prospect lists. Those teams may already be souring on them so they are willing to deal. And Hahn “looks” good acquiring highly rated guys, who probably won’t live up to their billing.
It’s really not an interesting take.
Why would you say that?
I would say it’s an interesting, and depressing take
Hahn is a bad GM, but I doubt he is doing any of his business through prospect lists.
Prospect lists get their names from MLB front offices, not the other way around. It’s also a lazy take, frankly.
More importantly, the Sox did well from the Sale/Q/Eaton trades. The players weren’t just talented, they were reasonably productive. Yes, there were misses. Welcome to prospect evaluation.
The rebuild didn’t fail because the prospect returns weren’t productive enough. It failed because the Sox drafted horribly and didn’t sign premium free agents.
So which of the guys Hahn acquired in the last rebuild lived up to their billing? Probably Cease, maybe Giolito. Moncada, no. Eloy, no. Kopech, no. Rey Lopez, no. Rutherford, are you kidding me?
What do you mean by “lived up to their billing?” You seem to mean hit their ceiling. But to get legit, major-league contributions from the top 2 prospects of each of those three deals is almost unheard of for such young prospects.
Cease hit like his 95% outcome. Giolito probably 80-90%. Moncada, Eloy, and Kopech all probably within 30-50% (though Eloy and Kopech still in the air). Lopez probably 60%. Rutherford wasn’t part of those deals, but yeah he was at like 2% outcome. And they flipped Dunning for Lynn.
For reference, check out, for example, the 2019 top prospect list. A few hits in the top 3, but lots of disappointments beyond that.
Of the 7 Top 100 prospects Hahn acquired, none has turned into a perennial all-star. Why can’t we get at least one of those guys? You would think at least one would have turned into a consistent year in-year out star. But no, not with the White Sox. It’s really frustrating.
I mean, Giolito turned out quite well considering they got him when his stock was pretty low. Sucked his first full year, then three AS quality years, and two merely decent ones more recently. Cease is midway through his third year of pitching at a borderline All-Star level by peripherals, and obviously got badly snubbed for the ASG last year. Robert has been consistently excellent when not dismembered; he’s presently the second best player in the AL after Ohtani, and I think he qualifies for what you want.
I’m not saying Hahn did bad in those trades. Obviously we got some very good quality in those trades. But not one has been at all-star level even two years in a row. But again, overall, I’m happy with what we got. As Frank said, prospect evaluation is hit and miss.
Gotta disagree a little, Gio was definitely pitching at ASG levels for 2019 thru 2021. But, yes, I agree the issue wasn’t the trade guys, they did respectably. The issues are keeping those dudes healthy and falling flat on their faces adding talent via draft or FA. Hostleter was shockingly bad at drafting, and Jerry is a penny-pinching jagoff.
Yeah, we wouldn’t be talking about this right now if Jerry had taken Harper off that silver platter he was handed during his free agent year.
4.0 is the low end of all-star range for bWAR. Moncada had 5.2 bWAR in 2019 and 4.0 bWAR in 2021. It’s easy to forget that Moncada was a very good baseball player when healthy.
The first Sox season I remember well is 1969. Since that time the Sox have had 14 position players put up more than one 4.0 bWAR season (counting 1.5 of more bWAR in the 2020 season as 4.0 bWAR).
9 seasons at least 4.0 bWAR for the Sox – Frank Thomas
6 seasons at least 4.0 bWAR for the Sox – Robin Ventura
5 seasons at least 4.0 bWAR for the Sox – Chet Lemon
4 seasons at least 4.0 bWAR for the Sox – Abreu
3 seasons at least 4.0 bWAR for the Sox – Magglio, TA, Eaton
2 seasons at least 4.0 bWAR for the Sox – Aparicio (he had two additional prior to 1969), Fisk, Durham, Valentin, Konerko, Moncada, Robert
Postion players who had one 4.0 bWAR season for the Sox since 1969:
Melton, Allen, Carlos May, Henderson, Orta, Soderholm, Baines, Calderon, Raines, Lance Johnson, Dave Martinez, Calderon, Belle, Singleton, Rowand, Carlos Lee, Uribe, Thome, Crede, Dye, Quentin, Alexei Ramirez, Rios, Avi Garcia
I’m the person who made the initial point, and I’m not saying those trades didn’t turn out well. I was basically saying there was no way of trading Quintana to the Cubs without getting Eloy+Cease+others, no trading Eaton to the Nats without getting Giolito+Lopez+other, no trading Sale to the Red Sox without getting 2 of Moncada/Devers/Kopech. Unless someone would’ve said, “No we don’t want Moncada, give us your #28 ranked prospect in the DSL”. Hahn isn’t THAT stupid, he just lacks a creative bone in his body and runs a team like the 40th percentile Fangraphs commentator.
Idk about that, the Eaton trade was seen as a really serious haul that favored the Sox at the time, and it still looks like that now. That was some serious selling-high on Eaton, in retrospect.
He helped the Nats win a title ofc, so no one in DC is bemoaning it. Still, that was a lot more value than I expected for Eaton.
Right, it was a very favorable trade. Rizzo really wanted Sale, and when he couldn’t get him bc the Red Sox offered more, he really wanted Eaton. Giolito and Lopez were clearly the Nats two best prospects, Dunning was a recent 1st rounder who pitched on a College World Series winner Florida team. 3 famous prospects. Give Hahn credit for asking for 3 good and famous prospects rather than 3 obviously terrible ones, sure. I just don’t what was that special about making that trade that an average fantasy baseball dynasty player wouldn’t have done. I guess circling back after the Sale trade to see if the Nats were interested in offering a similar package for Eaton? Not pissing off Rizzo?
You’re making it sound like Rizzo called Hahn and offered those 3 players for Eaton. It’s very doubtful it went down like that. Most likely it was a negotiation. Hahn deserves credit for seeing that to its conclusion.
It’s possible to hate Hahn and want him gone and still say, “Rick, you did that particular thing well.”
There was a lot of angst about holding on to Q until the following mid-season, but it turned out Rick did that particular thing well, too. I still hate him and his bosses and want them all gone.
Hahn did well in those three trades. My point was just that the process behind each of those trades as, “Who are the top two prospects ranked by public prospect evaluators in this org who wants my player?”. And that worked, because generally public prospect evaluators do a good job. It’s just that Hahn’s value added in trades over a routine reader of Jim Callis or JJ Cooper is basically nothing.
And the Sox likely would’ve been much better off if Callis or Cooper was running the team. Because Hahn’s shown no ability to discover value from prospects who weren’t famous.
And even then, Devers alone would’ve been better than Moncada+Kopech. Jeimer Candelario (lower ranked prospect than Eloy who was also traded in 2017) has almost produced double the career fWAR to date than Eloy. Isaac Paredes (same trade as Candy) is 1 fWAR below Eloy and has only played 2 seasons. Don’t remember much about the Nats system at the time but I think Gio and Lopez were clearly their top 2 prospects and had already made their MLB debuts.
I kind of remember Boston saying Devers would not be traded. Maybe I’m wrong
I agree. So why would they be willing to trade the #1 prospect, but not the #15 prospect. What did they know?
They thought Devers was a safer bet to hit than Moncada, who had swing and miss that made him iffy as a prospect. Boston internally liked Devers better than Moncada, and it seems they were right… although I do wonder if Moncada’s long COVID is what really badly derailed him. He has just never visibly looked like the explosive, gifted athlete he was before that. Even in his decent ‘21 he wasn’t hitting the ball nearly as hard.
It seems like the prospect lists are based on highest ceiling, not overall chance of being productive. Some guys have a large difference between floor and ceiling. Others don’t. On a scale of 1-10, I rather have more guys whose range is 6-8 than guys who have a range of 3-10. Now having 1 or 2 high ceiling-lower floor guys is ok, but I would not want a team full of them. Too much could go wrong.
He sure does love failed first round picks.
I refuse to give Hahn much credit for selling. Any replacement level GM could sell off parts for a bunch of lottery tickets. Only the good ones can finish the job.
Jerry is smiling. He just saved about $30M with all the trades. Now the 8th generation of Reinsdorks are taken care of, because we know it won’t go back into the major league club.
Has that been confirmed? I haven’t seen any reporting on if the Sox ate any salary or not.
Yeah, I guess I’m just speculating that they didn’t eat any salary.
Maybe they can use a chunk of that 30 to ship to LAA with Moncada.
Korey Lee is a surprisingly good return. FG had a 50 on him, but that’s probably declining to 45 or 45+. Still, somewhere between average starting catcher and “luxury” backup catcher in Longenhagen’s words, is a lot more than expected for a good-not-great RP paid at market price.
Hilarious, here they sit on pace to lose 99, and today is probably the happiest I’ve been about this team in 2 years.
Yeah, that sums it up pretty well
I think what happened when I predicted 90-95 wins this season, I typed they would LOSE 95 games and my computer auto corrected me. So my computer is whacked, not me!
This might be one of the happiest days in Hahn’s life. Now he can look for 3 new relievers this winter!
He’ll just sign Joe Kelly when the Dodgers decline his option.
Any chance we are getting Micah Johnson too?
Besides the obvious expiring contracts hitting the bricks, what about players on this “core” that have big-time skills, but can’t stay on the field and are a big part of the W Sox losses – I’m referring to Moncada and Eloy. I’m tired of waiting for these two to step up.
I would assume Middleton, and possibly Bummer will also be traded. So what will be the Sox 13-man staff when this is all over? I wonder if Bobby Jenks can still close?
Bummer is almost untradeable
No he’s not lol. His peripherals are great; his FIP is at 2.35, xERA and xFIP higher but under 3, and he’s cheaper and for longer than Graveman or Kelly.
Yeah. Aaron Bummer is the Lance Lynn relief pitching.
Bummer has a 5.5M extension until next year plus at least a 1.25M buyout. That makes him untradeable. Bummer has more value as a rental.
And sometimes unwatchable.
These trades show to really move the needle enough to actually contend in the next 3 years Cease needs to be traded now.
And, of course, Hahn neds to be fired at 6:01 PM next Tuesday.
I was thinking 6:00 and 15 seconds.
Hahn is great at moving the needle – from E to quarter-tank.
It would make the most sense to trade Cease now, undoubtedly. I doubt he will have better value, I’m not sure a better year next year would enhance what they could get for him now, with the extra season/post season that teams would get.
Hahn did well with these trades, my opinion. It doesn’t change that their org as a whole doesn’t have a clue, and may blow it by not dealing Cease – who would get much more significant prospects than what they’ve gotten so far. We’ll see what they do between now and Tuesday.
You just can’t have Hahn make that trade.
I think someone suggested this in the comments, but I am increasingly of the mind that the Sox should trade Cease, TA, and Eloy now and then see if the next front office can’t do a better job of making the pieces fit.
Next front office? Are we getting a new one before Jerry dies?
I don’t know. I honestly don’t know what Jerry is thinking or how he could delude himself into thinking that anything this front office has done has worked during the contention window.
Jerry certainly assisted the failure by making Benintendi the biggest contract he allowed Hahn to give to free agents during the whole rebuild. The front office blows, but Jerry has played a major role in this fiasco as well.
I think if you see those guys traded, it’s a pretty strong sign Hahn is keeping his job. I’m fine with selling off impending free agents and relievers, but I’d rather let a new front office make the decisions on the more significant assets. In my my opinion, you can probably get pretty close to the same value for Cease in the offseason anyway.