Following up: What are the White Sox proud of?
Manny Machado’s deal with the San Diego Padres isn’t official yet, but the White Sox have discussed it like it is.
Also, Bob Nightengale came through with the final offered contract structure from the White Sox, and while it would be audacious by the standards of any contract the White Sox had ever offered, in comparison to the Padres’ fairly-clean-so-far 10-year, $300 million deal, it looked like the White Sox cluttered their own path:
There are two ways to look at it. I immediately thought, “they’re taking Machado’s last $50 million and making him bet it for the chance to win $70 million.” Keith Olbermann did a bit more math and came away with:
I’d usually avoid using “stupid,” but when watching the White Sox try to explain the failed pursuit that came up $50 million short of the guaranteed money Machado accepted, they added no real thoughtfulness to the conversation.
With the Kenny Williams-Rick Hahn dynamic, Williams often receives the brunt of the derision from White Sox fans, who grew tired of his version of the events long ago. I’ve long thought this to be an unhealthy simplification that affords Hahn less scrutiny when most mistakes are dismissed as “Kenny moves.”
Wednesday provided a fine example of why I don’t bother trying to categorize them. Both used their trademarked styles to brief reporters on their disappointment. Both dropped the ball in making White Sox fans feel any better about it.
Here’s Williams with a more dramatic approach, some of which might have been authentic since the news had just broken:
It’s hard to square up some of the “shock” considering he said Yoan Moncada’s move to third base to open spring training was “part of” the decision. He also said the $300 million offer “wasn’t feasible to us,” which Hahn subsequently undercut by saying there is no “magic cap” during his more formal media conference.
Hahn tried his own hand at breaking the news, but his sturdy method also proved useless against the disappointment.
James Fegan transcribed it for your disgust:
“There are certain elements of this pursuit that as an organization I think we should be proud of – we should be proud of the aggressiveness and creativity of our offer, which we were told was not only extremely competitive, but if the reports out there are accurate was superior to what was ultimately selected in certain ways,” Hahn said, pushing back against the notion of the Sox having a hard cap on their offer. “That said, this is free agency. The players have worked extremely hard to get to this point and they have choices. In the end, deals of this length are extremely complicated with various moving pieces. We were aggressive in trying to balance the length of control, the upside, the risk and the flexibility a contract like this would provide. In the end we felt we made a very compelling offer.”
Proud. Creativity. Extremely competitive. Superior in certain ways. This sounds like something you’d brag about when finishing runner-up for your poster at a science fair, when at least you get credit for participating. In an industry worth billions, this is Hahn describing how the Sox failed to deliver what the client wanted.
Also, it’s hard to go with the “extremely complicated with various moving pieces” defense as long as the San Diego Padres’ offer continues to be surprisingly straightforward. Right now, it’s 10 years, $300 million, one opt-out, no deferred money. There’s probably a signing bonus in play, but unless any of the previous reporting is wrong — a caveat for certain — there’s nothing in here that isn’t the standard cost of doing business for a losing franchise. The White Sox just refuse to play ball:
As the news unfolded Tuesday, I’m only seeing that the Padres understood what they had to do from their bargaining position, and the White Sox refused to acknowledge it. And going back to Ken Rosenthal’s report that Jerry Reinsdorf didn’t want to set the market, the “auction sweat” I wrote about 10 days ago feels more legit than I’d intended. I mean, if the White Sox wanted to finish second on purpose, this is what it would look and sound like, from the pursuit to the offer to the defense.
In the defense of Hahn and Williams, there isn’t much they can say for a deal that Reinsdorf negotiated directly. Their own methods might have resulted in a 10-year, $320 million deal for Machado for all I know. Just like I don’t see much of a point in guessing “Kenny moves” from “Rick moves” when the front office structure isn’t changing, there isn’t a point in trying to isolate them from Reinsdorf’s wishes. At deals of this magnitude, this is how the decision-making engine is going to work.
If I have to judge Williams and Hahn against each other for any reason, I give Williams the massive edge in his response tactics, because he came closer to succeeding with the combo of dismay, shock, grave realities of limitations, we’ll get ’em next time. It’s all dissatisfying, but it’s all dissatisfying.
Also, Williams gets credit for the most honest line of them all when comparing the efforts from higher levels.
“You’ve got to give it to them,” Williams said. “They are in a similar trajectory as we are. And for the same reasons we were after him, they were after him. Their ownership group did a great job in trumping everyone else.”
Frustrating AF.
What is AF?
As Fuck
That last quote of KW appears to be a jab at JR
That would be nice if it were. If we can’t have a good product to follow, there might as well be some bitter, soap-opera-style drama among management.
It would be eminently more watchable than the on field product.
Maybe it’s actually a very business-savvy move to mimic the antics and success of the pro wrestling organizational infighting and pay homage to Veeck. Eventually it will carry over to the field in little fights and skits that will happen during inning breaks, like the world’s longest lasting minor league ploy.
Replete with long lost evil twins and dramatic bouts of amnesia, please and thank you.
I’m guessing it’s professional courtesy for the Padres. Reinsdorf is revered.
*Renisdorf
I think yesterday was a banner day for the Renisdorf crowd. I think they got their evidence to convict him in the court of cheapness.
I find it hard to argue. Are you saying he didn’t cheap out?
I agree he did cheap out. I guess my point was the evidence hasn’t ever been more clear.
Even after sleeping on it, it doesnt feel any better. Not one iota.
They begged to finish 2nd the entire off season and got their wish. Jerry and co can continue to line their pockets under the false pretense of a rebuild but this is basically a defrauded fan base.
All off season I kept saying, dont let other teams linger, be aggressive, its not outbidding yourself, its the bid to get the player you want. All the big money was out , dodgers, yanks, cubs, redsox, a superstar was sitting right there and you didnt want to set the god damn market… this is what you get.
The amount of added pressure you just put on 250 K’s waiting to happen and new position moncada and 21 year old not sure if he is defensively ready yet Eloy is massive.
And whats the sox window now? If moncada and eloy are great they walk in 2023 and 2024? We admitted we cant resign them. If we cant sign star players with no payroll obligations how are they gonna re sign star players when the base salary of the team is a lot higher???? Of course if they arent stars then the window never opens, so basically they are screwed either way.
Great work top to bottom, from the clown show that is Jerry Reinsdorf, Kenny Williams, and Rick Hahn… bravo guys…. good luck getting anyone other then blood relatives out to the ball park this year. Not that you care, your crap ass 80 million dollar team already racks in money before you even need to sell a god damn ticket.
This is exactly how most of us thought it would play out, making it even more frustrating.
Just enough to say we tried, without ever having to go deep into their own pockets.
What a perfect chance for the White Sox, and they postured as if they recognized the situation for 3 months, but they tried to be cute instead of just going with what everyone paying attention knew it would take to get him, 10 years and 300M.
I havent been this disappointed in JR since 1994.
+1 And I agree on 1994.
I still don’t get the hesitancy to include an opt-out after the 5th year. It seems bonkers to me. I get that it gives the player more freedom than the team, but wouldn’t Manny’s opting out after year 5 be, in many or most cases, the best case scenario for the Sox? For an 8 or 10-year deal, I just can’t see Manny being worth $30m a season after year 6 or 7.
I mean, I wouldn’t—right now—offer Machado a $30m AAV contract in his age 31-35 seasons. If he mashes in the first 5, I’m sure the opt-out would hurt for a year or two. But I doubt he’s worth it after year 6 or 7. You avoid the albatross plus you have an extra $30m to direct elsewhere.
The thing is contracts are all market driven. The market dictates now that you have to give opt outs so the White Sox don’t have a choice if they want a tier 1 free agent.
The market dictates opt-outs because teams aren’t willing to just guarantee more salary not because that’s what players want. If they’d just outright guaranteed him 10/$350m, he’s not turning that down for an opt-out.
The Sox are philosophically opposed both to paying market rate and giving players contract freedom. They’re also opposed to catcher framing.
They’re fine with Drake LaRoche practicing with the team. Jimmy Rollins ain’t gonna fix this mess, tho.
You framed your point nicely 🙂
ISWYDT
An opt out even gives the player an incentive to perform to possibly get another contract. Doesn’t seem like something that a team should rule out. Assuming the contract isn’t front loaded, no massive signing bonus, in this case no qualifying offer penalty, I don’t see the big deal with including it.
It’s the principle of the team not being in control of the player’s destiny.
Maybe my original post wasn’t clear, but independent of whether the market requires opt-outs, why are the Sox so hesitant to give them out? Hahn acts as if they just completely screw the team. Maybe if he got multiple including one in the first few years, but not after year 5.
I get the team isn’t in control of the players destiny after a certain point, and, sure, you’d prefer a team opt-out. But large contracts like these are usually predicated on the idea that you pay the player more than he’s worth on the back half of the contract in order to get the front half (generally). The White Sox don’t want to give out an opt-out because then they won’t have him on the back end, which is only a bad thing if he is worth more than his AAV on the backend (which is unlikely). If he did opt out, he’d likely get more in the open market (otherwise, why opt out?), but even so- its a big Risk to pay a guy $30m AAV in his age 31-35 seasons.
And even if he opts out, guess what? You got him for his 5 most valuable years and now you have $30m to allocate elsewhere.
That’s literally it. You’re looking for the dispassionate logic of tangible costs/rewards when this is about ideology, labor-management relations, and noncommensurate benefits.
If he exercises the opt-out then the White Sox got five years of elite production for a very reasonable price. An organizational policy against opt-outs is absolutely insane. The players will only exercise it when they perform so well during the front end of the contract that they think they can beat it on the back end.
I’m increasingly of the mindset that Hahn may be the worst in the league. Semien/Shark, Flowers, Melky, LaRoche, whatever this offseason was… This guy shouldn’t be running a 7-11, much less a baseball franchise.
At least none of the prospects broke their hand yesterd…
Oh…
At least they added some fountain thingys to the outfield.
Well, I fell for their seriousness in adding a major free agent. I really thought things were different this time. Shame on me for believing that. The comments really show they are not serious about adding major free agents, because they “don’t do business that way”. They just flat-out lied to us this whole time. To be outbid by the Padres is inexcusable. And now we’re supposed to go to games so we can see Jay and Alonso and be reminded of their lies? This front-office is an absolute joke. Jerry needs to sell. Now.
anyone spending a cent on this team this year is more apart of the problem then the solution, I have a streak to keep alive for opening day after that, not a cent, I wont even go for free tix cause I will end up buying food and beers, cant have that.
I agree with you. No real Sox fans should support this team and give a dime to Jerry. Unfortunately he doesn’t care- revenue from fans is not their main source of revenue anymore. They need to be ridiculed at every stop. All of you going to the opener need to get together and voice your displeasure throughout the entire game. Signs, chants, anything that will embarrass that joke of a front office.
Honestly I would love it if the opener had 9,000 people at it
I think it would be better if they had a packed house and chanted “Jerry sucks” the entire game.
right, i was thinking the garbage bag over the head thing may be most appropriate
Brooks Boyer read this and immediately thought: Unknown Comic Night.
Remember the ‘Ain’ts!
It isn’t only the more serious fans that follow sites like this but even the more casual fans have to think it is ridiculous to sign a player’s friends but not the player. I expect management will really hear it from fans as this team drifts toward 100 losses.
Assuming Trout gets 9 Years 400 million I think we’ll offer him 7/315 with incentives (that he plays all 162 games the previous year) that bring it to 9/401.
This whole “We thought we had the best offer and were extremely creative”,is doublespeak for we made an offer that looked good, but was made to ensure he didn’t sign with us. They are either bad liars or extremely incompetent. I’m getting the former- they knew what they were doing the whole time.
nobody comes in 2nd place better with more whimsical excuses then the whitesox, NOBODY!
Rick Hahn shouldn’t be proud of their creativity when the most obvious and simplest of contracts won the day.
Creativity usually equals cheapness in Sox parlance. Diminished Skills Clause, anyone?
You are 100 percent correct. They knew what he wanted and wouldn’t give it to him. I’m now convinced they had no intention of signing him.
I don’t doubt the team was serious and would have signed him. Just not serious enough. What gets me is how surprised they always seem to be that there are other teams they are bidding against. They really didn’t anticipate – or take seriously – SD entering the market. The original rumor was an 8 year offer and seems Renisdorf had a bug up his butt about effectively sticking to 8 yrs.
If they were supposedly willing to offer Manny $320million with performance clauses, then prove you’re serious by adding $10million to the deal to get Harper. Come on Jerry, prove us wrong. I dare you.
The future of the outfield looks good, with Eloy and Luis Robert.
The biggest hole on this team is on the left side of the infield.
I dont even want Harper.
Really, why would anyone want a lefty power bat with a 400 obp in between Abreu and Eloy?
Yes. @Gus I love all the outfield prospects, but maybe none of them–including Eloy–turn out to be as good as Harper. Plus, outfielders wind up at 1B and DH and being part of a platoon. Imagine, Eloy, Robert, Harper, Basabe, Adolfo, and Rutherford all getting playing time.
And I’d vote for catcher as biggest hole. I would have more confidence in Yolmer and Burger at 3rd than the current crop of organizational depth at catcher.
I just dont want them throwing 400M at him trying to save face after all this backlash. Of the two, Machado was the perfect fit. Of course Id still like to have that bat in the order.
Also, Im still holding out hope for Zack Collins.
theres no way you need to offer 400 to get harper at this point lol
Their BS explanations make it even worse. Kenny either thinks we’re all stupid and is lying to us or the front office is even more incompetent than we thought.
You’re “shocked” your offer was topped when you were 50 million below what he was asking for and everyone assumed he’d get in guaranteed money? Not wanting to bid against yourself is one thing but not considering that someone would actually offer what he’d want is sheer idiocy. So again, this was either a con and they’re lying when they say that “getting premium free agents is the next step”, or they’re merely incapable of actually doing it. Neither is good.
They’re never going to supplement whatever core they build in order to have a complete championship caliber roster. Or at least never enough to open a true competitive window. They’re talking about extensions for the prospects like it’s a forgone conclusion they’re going to be good. We haven’t even gotten back to 2016 mediocre yet.
I’ve never been a Jerry has to go guy but this highlights for me that none of this will ever change until the whole front office and ownership does. Hahn has no credibility and Kenny’s was gone long ago. Until Jerry dies or sells my interest is severely limited in following this clown show.
Kenny cannot come out and say ownership was unwilling to spend. I don’t fault him for that. What I do fault KW and RH for is their seemingly authentic shock that they were outbid or that a player with an ego really wanted 300mil guaranteed and some kind of opt out. That shows a lack of understanding of what the player wanted, the market for him, or what was going on in negotiations.
I think of it this way: if you were explaining to prospective future employers how you fucked this up while also trying to keep your current job, what would you say? That’s a tiny needle to thread.
I think he was more shocked that there was another bid at all more than that Manny took the clearly superior bid.
Also, mad props to you Jim for the picture you used for this article. Another example of a horrendous decision and cheapness by Reinsdorf– not choosing the South Loop location for the new park, not pointing the park toward the beautiful skyline, and not taking Populous up on their offer to redesign a retro park for the Sox right after they finished their Camden blueprint (all because it meant delaying opening new Comiskey by one year).
Sox could have been Chicago’s #1 team if JR made better decisions throughout his ownership history. From the ballpark to so many other things, it’s infuriating to continue to watch this.
It’s perfect because it highlights their poor decision making and it’s incomplete.
What better way to describe every White Sox roster since 2000 other than ‘05 and ‘06?
You didn’t like the lovely view of Stateway Gardens?
People I wouldn’t want to be: Yonder Alonso
Uh, I’d take the $9 million he’s due.
Again, too much discussion about the offer. No respectable agent would ever let his stud sign on to work under this FO and coaches.
Long time lurker and infrequent poster. Very frustrated. But if you’re mad, it could be worse — you could be me! My wife is moving us to Austin, Texas. I am 1/4 owner of awesome season tickets — Sec. 130 right behind Scout Seats. I stupidly thought that they would sign Machado and there would be a secondary market for tickets and I would come back for a few games. Now, I just literally lit $6,000 on fire. I think I have shown more dedication to winning than the White Sox have. Anyhow, hit me up if you want to pay much less than face to see Manny’s friends play. 🙂
If you can’t unload the tickets to the worst game, I’ll go just to wear shirts and/or make signs chastising management that will definitely get on television and get me asked to leave.
I will be posting available home games and would be fine with your protests. As an aside, during Game 1 of the World Series I was heckling Gov. Blago because he had said that he had to go to the game, but he was a Cub’s fan. I was telling him we didn’t need him there and he should have donated his tix to someone who wanted to be at the game. His security detail politely (really) told me that he suspected that I had been waiting for the World Series for awhile, so he recommended toning it down a nothc. So, the seats are good for protesting! 🙂
Just so you know, his security detail hated him too.
Gov Thompson used to come in for lunch. His Security was delighted to not have spend an hour in that asshole’s company, and told me so.
Blago was kind of a whole ‘nother beast. When the feds came to arrest him, his security detail was all too happy to step aside.
This and the other site are the last refuges of Sox diehards. It is our responsibility to put as much pressure on Jerry to sell as possible. Quit falling for the BS.
Brewers looking better and better.
“SELL!”
Or what?
“Your franchise value will keep increasing due to revenue streams that have nothing to do with attendance.”
This feels like the most hopeless lose lose situation.
Either we stay complacent and just keep rooting for them because “through thick and through thin” and nothing changes
or
We rant and rave and even boycott as hard as we can, yelling for ownership change, selling the team, or in extreme cases, what happens naturally for old men and still nothing changes
Like what even can we do at this point?
Not much, really.
I guess we’re forced to remember who every other hopeless fanbase must when considering whether their fandom is worth it: the ’69 Mets, Kirk Gibson, Loyola U, Leicester City, Danny Noonan, the Miracle on Ice, Buster Douglas, and maybe even the 2005 World Series.
The front office is certainly not excused from their transactions (or lack thereof) yesterday. However, we’re all better off not to let their ineptitude effect our lives. For me, the juice is still worth the squeeze. If it’s not for you, I guess would suggest a new hobby.
Try taking a cooking class? Or join a gym? Perhaps travel to Thailand, I hear the snorkeling is nice.
My kid is in Bali. Lovely and dirt cheap.
Don’t the other revenue streams also depend on fan interest? If people stop watching and ratings plummet, won’t associated revenue streams start to decrease as well? At some point fan disinterest would have to have an effect elsewhere besides the ballpark.
A significant chunk of the revenue comes from league-wide rather than team-specific sources. So it takes a critical mass of discontent at MLB as a whole to cause a problem.
Ah ok. Thanks!
Of course, said critical mass might be coming in 2021.
I hear there’s a kid in A ball who OPS’d .700 we should all be really excited about.(moved the previous franchise cornerstone to 3B for him already!)
You will all feel really dumb for doubting in 2 years….umm, or maybe 3.
The Sox refusal to include an opt-out, to me, means they weren’t really serious about signing Machado. Since that’s team policy, I think it also means you can cross off any top-tier free agents being signed as part of the rebuild.
I’m very tired of the Sox looking like a clown show and the Sox management pretending they don’t when even they must know how pathetic this effort looks.
Any chance Oprah could buy the team and hire Kim Ng to be GM?
The amazing thing is that it’s such a reasonable opt-out. It’s five years from now.
Worst case scenario (in terms of offering that opt-out) is that Machado plays incredibly well and opts-out in 2023, at which point every player already on the ML roster other than Tim is also gone.
And what are the odds of him opting out anyways? He’d be entering his age 31 season and hoping to make $150m/5. Not a lot of free agents that age have been getting a guarantee like that. He’d have to massively outperform to actually use that opt out
I give them no credit. Hahn’s comments at Sox fest sure sounded like a pre-apology for not landing Machado. It was a wasted offseason, and it doesn’t look like this team is going to be competitive anytime soon. If Rodon is healthy and gets off to a good start, maybe they’ll trade him for some more talent that will line up with our new competitive window of 2023.
What are the Sox Proud of? Are you kidding? They’ve been working on their slogans and right now, “Manny’s Friends Can Play” is the winner.
“Sox owners bombed on Manny Machado and all I got was this Jon Jay sherzee.”
So the next logical question for Jim/Josh podcast is:
Where does the so called “window of contention” move?
Because,
Eloy is great and all, but currently, I don’t see this team contending in 2019, nor in 2020.
Rodon is gone after than, so we’ll need another pitcher. Another cheap decent left arm wasted.
3B is still a sink hole, and Moncada does not guarantee it will be fixed.
in 2021 Abreu is probably gone or just not enough to carry a massive WAR load on his shoulders
Yes, there will be Kopech, Eloy, and maybe Cease and Madrigal providing impactful WAR value in 2021, but like Kenwo stated, that sounds familiar (Sale/Q/Eaton/Abreu)
Yes, there’ll be financial flexibility in 2020 and 2021, but Hahn/KW has shown us over and over that they don’t know what to do with money. Will they buy a cluster of 1 WAR players? Hoping volume adds up to needed quality?
So, “contention window”. Where is it? I think not signing Machado, it got pushed back 1 or 2 years. Optimistically, it will be in 2021. In the meantime, the years of play off draught keeps growing
The Sox are awash in cash. We know they have 31 million they thought they were sending. Hahn said there were other deals they were looking at, so let’s say another 10 million they can spend. Almost 60 million can come off the books at season’s end. The new TV deal kicks in next year. For the love of God, put some money into this team.
Let’s hope there will be players to throw money to in the future. Finding FAs as young as Manny and as good as Manny is not easy. Arenado will be 29 years old next year (Assuming the Rockies don’t extend him). Arenado is a stud, but signing a 29 yr old FA is a helluva different than signing a 26 yr old one.
Also, the White Sox don’t play alone. Next year, other teams will free up money and will want to “play the FA game as well”. This year was particularly great, because few teams were bidding for Machado.
The Sox, with their “no opt-outs” and unwillingness to sign an extended deal with a 26 year-old, have essentially announced they will not be bidding for any top-tier free agents. So, that’s a no on Arenado.
Right now the best you can hope for with the Sox is that they end up accidentally good. And even that would be unsatisfying because this organization should not be rewarded for how it is run.
The organizers run the organization, the players play the game.
If the accidentally good time comes, don’t worry–
you will find satisfaction with the guys on the field. I think that would be just dandy.
pnoles’ comparison of the $40m they’ve spent to the $30m they didn’t drives home the point that their chosen alternative to guaranteeing money to elite talent in its prime is to spend less effectively, more inefficiently.
And so much for Hahn’s specialty being contracts, even if his hands were tied. It’s also the front office’s job to convince ownership of the right priorities.
Hahn bet on Manny buying into his late years and constructed the offer as such with incentives. It’s disheartening to realize the obvious choice was exactly the offer Machado would chose (which was posited all along, at least from my understanding).
I’m at a loss for where this team is heading and the decision making that is sorely needed to make the Sox competitive again.
If they’re going to go cheap, hire Chaim Bloom or Andrew Friedman to run the team. The Rays at least have a track record of getting wins for rock-bottom prices. It would require actually letting loyal employees go, so that won’t be happening while Jerry Reinsdorf owns the team.
Jerry spends money like Billy Beene is his GM.. He needs to spend over Rick’s stupidity
Watch, the next BS spin move they’ll do is subtly start shifting the contention window back, saying they’re committed to long term success and aren’t going to deviate from their plan. Hoping you’ll forget the reason they traded Sale, Quintana, Eaton etc. was to shorten the time it would take to return to contention by having a massive influx of cheap young talent and the financial flexibility to sign premium free agents in this off-season. The 3 year plan will become a 5 year plan and before you know it they’ll be on rebuild 3 like Gar/Pax.
I mean the dumbest thing about all of this is they were planning on targeting this FA class for 2 years and they still screwed it up. It’s either disingenuousness or incompetence, and neither one is good.
I think they’ll waste prospects on 2 years of Pederson and $ on 1 year of Gio G, just to end up with a wosre draft pick.
You mean we would be stuck with Gio and Pederson? That’s horrible. No room for them, that’s for sure.
74 wins, instead of 70, here we come!
Can still make money betting the under if they sit at 74!
I’ll take 74 wins. That’s 12 more than last year.
If you need more, try the Cubs. I hear they are really good.
I wouldn’t worry about Rodon being gone. Even if we’d been competitive the last two seasons, Rodon would have had a minimal role in that.
Plus they’re either fine with the restrictions in place, not persuasive enough to get them removed, or not good enough at their jobs to resign and find another landing spot. So judge them as a whole.
The organization is not serious about competing. It was never serious about competing. It behaves according to self-imposed rules that ignore how markets actually work. The result is not only the lack of impact free agents, but also a weak international talent pipeline. This team will continue to replace Jeff Keppingers and Adam LaRoches with Yonder Alonsos.
The statements by Williams and Hahn are delusional.
I think the reason for the self-imposed rules is from anti-labor principles and to get leverage in CBA negotiations. They prioritize restructuring the league economy over their win-loss record.
It’s not like it’s costing them money.
True of both the White Sox and Bulls. This being true, the effect of these decisions on the local market reminds me of Bill Wirtz’s stance towards local TV. It is ideological without considering the actual effects.
I get the sense that, from a competitive standpoint, winning the World Series fourteen years ago was the worst thing that happened to this franchise.
It would be unfair to say that haven’t spent money since, as they demonstrably have, but they are horrendously unwilling to consistently spend it, and have been able, in response, to point to/hint at 2005 as a different way to go about winning. You can look at Hahn’s promotion in this light; he was able to get creative/cheap contracts in a way Jerry approved of.
Truly, this kind of tearitdown rebuild ought to have been right in their wheelhouse as you only need to spend big once or twice, but you do actually need to do it.
I would agree – it’s not that they won’t spend some money. They are very willing to hand out short-term (3 years and under) obligations in the $10M per year and under range. They seem terrified of making big-money long-term commitments…they are very risk-averse.
The result is that they end up with players like Jay and Alonso and Nova and LaRoche and Keppinger. It’s a philosophy that fills the roster with a bunch of 30 year-old players with 1 WAR seasons as their upside.
It’s insulting that after doing this for a decade the organization still pretends that these are meaningful signings in an effort to build a competitive club.
I disagree. Reinsdorf doesn’t care. If they didn’t win that world series, nothing would have changed because why would it?
Mood: Fire everyone, sell the team, tear down Guaranteed Rate stadium and salt the earth
thats literally a better plan then what the sox 2019 offseason executed as their plan
I said it before and I’ll say it again, we should have fired Kenny and Hahn and hired Alex Anthopoulos when we had the chance.
“We.” Let me know when you scrape together the billion plus dollars to buy the team from the people who make those decisions.
A billboard that reads
The Sox are going to need to hire lifeguards for the Goose Island experience, with so many fans trying to drown themselves during games.
Every time I look at this comment, a different visual comes to mind, and they’re all hilarious.
I’m trying not to let this latest disappointment get me too down, but I’d be lying if I said it’s working.
I keep seeing the phrase rock-bottom thrown around, but I’m afraid we haven’t even come close to that yet. This miss is bigger than all others in my eyes. The only way to make up for it, is to change their philosophy and go all-in on Arenado next year and/or Trout the year after. But that requires a Rocky Wirtz-like change of ownership.
Personally, this is lowest I’ve felt about the Sox. Kenny and Rick have arrived on the elite GarPax level of ineptitude. In every facet of their roles.
Same. Bouncy between Caddyshack and the ballpark transported to the Simpson’s world with a splash of treasure hunters on Oak Island (don’t ask).
I just picture watching a game at home, center field cam:
/batter steps in
/distant whistle sound
/digs in
/sustained whistle
/batter steps out
/pitcher steps off mound
/umpire stands up
/everybody looks down right-field line
…
…
/batter steps in
PA plays yakkety sax while someone in an old-timey bathing suit leads White Sox security through a Keystone Cops routine in the outfield.
Substitute a life preserver for the bathing costume.
Substitute a rubberduck waist floatie for the life preserver.
Sox fans try reenacting salmon spawning upriver.
“Right-field line” I see what you did there.
What do you mean “So many”?
Ouch
Sox would benefit big time from league/division realignment and scrapping the unbalanced schedule. Think about it, 10 years is a long time. Imagine if you’re evaluating the prospect of 81 games per year in San Diego, plus another 35 or so games in Denver, LA, Phoenix, San Francisco. Now imagine 81 games per year in Chicago (with our nasty April/May weather) and traveling to Cleveland, Detroit, Minneapolis for another 35+ games (and the nasty April/May weather). I love Chicago and the Sox, but I was 26 years old and had that choice to make… How do we attract any elite free agent on a 10 year (or 5 or 8 year deal) without offering way over market price?
They didn’t even offer market value. If the Sox can’t win a bidding war with the Padres, what the hell are we even doing?
Plus if the Sox are routinely mediocre against Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, and Kansas City, how do you think they’d do against teams from actual large markets.
I’m not talking about winning or losing, I’m talking about lifestyle. The difference in the money from the Sox versus the Padres – maybe that’s not the factor. In either situation, Manny and his heirs have more than they’ll ever need, and that’s a ridiculous overstatement. But spending the next 10 years living and playing in beautiful locations and beautiful weather? It’s possible the Sox could have offered 10 years and $500 million and still lost.
A good way to test that theory would have been to beat the Padres offer. Probably the best way, really.
The Tigers convinced players to take their money to play in Detroit. So maybe it’s the money.
The Cubs convinced players to take the money to play in Chicago. So maybe it’s the money.
“But it won’t make you happy!”
Yes, maybe it is the money, maybe it’s not. Unfortunately the losers in competitive selling environment never know the real reasons behind a decision.
You’re really logic-ing yourself in circles here, when in reality the high bid gets the player like 98% of the time.
I’m not logic-ing myself in circles and I’m not trying to win an argument. I’m acknowledging that maybe it was the money. But it’s also possible that he and his family said “let’s live in freaking San Diego! They’re going to give us like $300 mil!”
You’re not acknowledging that it was 100% the money. To say otherwise is being disingenuous.
Heyward took LESS money to come to Chicago, so don’t blame the weather. The White Sox front office has established no credibility or culture like Theo and Jed, nor are they coming off a Championship Series appearance. They have to offer more money, period, and if they get turned down regardless, well, I’d at least like to know what that feels like.
I really can’t get over how badly the Sox have screwed this up. They’ve pushed their contention window back so that even if they do somehow build a competitive roster, it’ll coincide with the Tigers getting out from under their dead money, and the Twins figuring things out as well.
They were handed an opportunity to have the division by the gonads for a good 6 years and they screwed it up.
Why the hell does Reinsdorf care about $25M in years 9 or 10? You’re 82 years old!
Say what you will about those Mike Ilitch contracts, but at least he realized that he couldn’t take it with him.
Not that we didn’t all already know this, but Nightngale says Sox are “out of the Bryce Harper sweepstakes.”
This is really gotten beyond frustrating. This just adds legitimacy to the fact that they weren’t sincere in their pursuit.
They’d be idiotic to say they were in on Harper, even if they are.
I said this elsewhere, but if they were open and public about their Manny pursuit, why would I believe they’re after Harper and keeping quiet about it?
How many times have we heard the “we thought we were all set up to win this free agent, then he surprised us at the last minute” line? Torri Hunter comes to mind. How many others?
As a longtime Jerry Reinsdorf detractor it’s nice that others are finally seeing the light. Winning has always been far down on his list of priorities.
*Hello Darkness my old friend, GOB.gif*
This front office is delusional and their comments show it. As a fan base we were taken for a ride this offseason, and I’m curious what the season ticket sales have been like before yesterday.
I hope the home games are extremely poorly attended. I live in western PA and have been going to the Pirates and Indians games whenever they had a Sox home stand, but not this year. I don’t believe in the rebuild any longer.
They’re proud of the fact that they have now created the biggest PR disaster since the White Flag trade.
and that’s saying something
No baseball person worth their salt will ever work for Jerry Reinsdorf because of the constraints he imposes on them. That’s why we end up with guys like Hahn and the great Nick Hostetler. When Leyland and LaRussa were shopping around for teams to manage it was very telling that both passed on the Sox even though they like Reinsdorf.
Outside of the actual news, the philosophy stuff is what stuck as the most rage inducing. You know who gets to have a philosophy? Anyone with actual success. Belicheck can run out a pack of white guy midgets at WR and not spend for a premier WR and that philosophy is okay because he wins super bowls.
“Let me tell you about our org. We’ve become an afterthought to all but 2,000 people who hate themselves. We haven’t sniffed the postseason in a decade. We would like to improve, but our philosophy disqualifies us from signing every premium player that hits free agency.”
“Come on out to the ballpark!”