Reds 11, White Sox 4: Run out of their own park

At 2-13, the White Sox have never been worse through 15 games in franchise history, and they looked every bit the part this afternoon.

The box score shows that the White Sox committed three errors, but that only hints at how overmatched the Sox were this weekend. It’s easier just to take an inventory of the ways they failed.

No. 1: White Sox pitchers had more walks (eight) than strikeouts (7).

Michael Soroka issued six of them over 4⅔ innings, and he wasn’t feeling it from the start. He managed to escape with the bases loaded the first inning, he eventually faced a reckoning in the third. Christian Encarnacion-Strand followed Will Benson’s leadoff single by golfing a sinker out to left for a 2-0 lead, and that was the less painful part of the inning.

Soroka then walked the next two batters, and while Nicky Lopez saved a run with a diving stop on Elly De La Cruz’s grounder, it only delayed it, because two runs ended up scoring on Jeimer Candelario’s infield single. The hot shot ended up handcuffing Gavin Sheets, and while Lopez collected it, his throw home was too late to catch Jake Fraley, who never broke stride.

No. 2: The Reds ran wild.

Cincinnati stole six bases on Soroka, and even their mistakes didn’t result in outs. Korey Lee appeared to gun down Candelario at second in the fourth, but Lopez dropped the ball while applying the tag. In the sixth, Tanner Banks picked off Will Benson, but Sheets hesitated on the exchange before throwing to second, and Lopez missed the fast swipe tag.

No. 3: All three White Sox outfielders should’ve been charged with errors.

Fraley dropped a routine fly down the right-field line to gift the White Sox a second run in the fourth inning, which temporarily cut Cincinnati’s lead in half. In the seventh inning, Robbie Grossman duplicated the error to deprive Banks of a second out.

Two batters later, Tyler Stephenson hit a deep drive to right center, and while Dominic Fletcher had to travel a long way to get to the spot, he found the ball on the warning track. He just dropped the ball on the warning track. It was the toughest of the White Sox’s misplays, but it still probably should’ve been E8 all the same.

In the eighth, Andrew Benintendi fumbled a single, and Nick Martini turned it into a double. That extra 90 feet resulted in an E7.

No. 4: The White Sox offense … actually wasn’t terrible.

Had the White Sox not been shut out five times in the previous 14 games, today’s output would be treated as an ordinary losing effort. They reached on eight hits and five walks, and went 2-for-8 with a sac fly with runners in scoring position. The biggest issue in this one was a lack of extra-base hits, as Paul DeJong’s leadoff double in the seventh was the only one that counted. That said, Andrew Benintendi’s bases-loaded drive off the wall in left-center would’ve been a double under most circumstances, but all runners held because Benson almost flagged it down.

The offense wasn’t the problem for once, but when you factor in the defense they played, the position players weren’t a solution, either.

Bullet points:

*Tim Hill was ejected after his ninth-inning appearance, probably for disagreeing with a two-strike call by home plate umpire Derek Thomas.

*The Reds had nine of the 10 hardest-hit balls of the afternoon.

*The White Sox were outscored 27-5 this series, including two 11-run shellings.

Record: 2-13 | Box score | Statcast

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South Side Hit Men

We want to get better as fast as we possibly can.

– Jerry Reinsdorf August 31, 2023

I wanted to be an attractive place for pitchers to want to pitch here.

– Chris Getz February 12, 2024

Through 15 Games: 2-13 (2024) vs. 6-9 (2023)

  • Runs Allowed: 85 (2024) vs. 89 (2023)
  • Runs Scored: 34 (2024) vs. 70 (2023)
  • Errors: 12 (2024) vs. 9 (2023)
funkerdan

so we haven’t allowed as many runs. I see that as a positive, will read no more.

StockroomSnail

I really enjoy all the numbers you post.

Jonathan

Nothing about this organization is changing for the good as long as Jerry is the owner.

LamarHoyt_oncrack

Since they stopped playing the Tigers and Royals, they’ve given up an average of 7 runs per game over the past 6. That should dispense with talk about the pitching being better than expected.  Now bottom 5 in ERA, where they belong. 

This roster looks like the product of someone with a mental illness.

As Cirensica

There won’t be accountability becasue that’s how the White Sox conduct business

BillyKochFanClub

The Royals are 5th in baseball in runs per game. The Sox pitching staff is well below average, but using the Royals as a big reason for the Sox pitching’s encouraging start really doesn’t hold water as KC’s offense has been really good so far.

StockroomSnail

I have read that being wealthy is essentially a mental illness because you live without consequences.

Weird that I’m saying that here.

Last edited 1 month ago by StockroomSnail
BuehrleMan

Shambolic
Lacking in ability
Outmatched
Wanker for a manager

mrridgman

I like the Brit touch.

Joe

The use of wanker always gets an upvote.

MattyV415

Well, at least Nastrini pitching tomorrow is interesting.

As Cirensica

Well well…he sometimes shows up. Such a solitary owner. Is this sad?

FishSox

Sitting alone… Oblivious to the pariah status he’s brought upon himself.

I’ll bet he’s even reviled in his little tax attorney social group where he thinks he’s everyone’s hero for not selling and getting the tax advantage for his heirs.

Last edited 1 month ago by FishSox
As Cirensica

As solitary as the other one

runsoxrun

Tony went to get another round of drinks.

Holland23

Someone should tell him social distancing is no longer needed.

FishSox

I just can’t imagine being a player for this team. It really looks like dejection has set in 15 games into the season. These position players haven’t shown this badly in the past

JR will let Grif roll merrily along however, favoring cost savings over player development and organizational structure and health.

Last edited 1 month ago by FishSox
LamarHoyt_oncrack

All of the players and any remaining fans will be on Prozac before the season is over, if they don’t take their own lives first.

StockroomSnail

It’s super relatable, being stuck at a gig, set up to fail by evil incompetent overlords.

Shingos Cheeseburgers

Even if morale improves the beatings will continue.

FishSox

I’ll take baseball BDSM for one thousand, Alex.

Last edited 1 month ago by FishSox
AZSoxfan

We all knew that they were going to be horrible this year, but this is the worst Sox team in my lifetime. I thought that the crummy teams of the Ventura management era were at least fun to watch and had several players who I could get behind. And, importantly, Ventura had a good sense of humor about the whole thing. On the other hand, Grifol’s managing and his canned platitudes are an insult to the fans. Getz got handed a flaming bag of turd and I’m not ready to place the blame squarely at his feet, but he has to have seen enough of Grifol by now. JR gets to keep all of the parking; it’s in his best interest to get some people in the stands.

Alfornia Jones

Getz intentionally signed DeJong, Flexxen, and Maldonado. he intentionally went into a season with only 4 starters, none of them with a realistic chance to get through 5 innings regularly. no gm has ever handicapped their manager like getz did to grifol. grifol is the worst manager in white sox history, but this has nothing to do with grifol , this is all on getz.

mrridgman

If, as it appears, he had no $ to spend, I’d be curious to know the identity of the payers you would have signed with the same $.

hitlesswonder

They could have not signed Maldonado and Lopez and instead used Hackenberg and Sosa and saved $9M. You could have signed Duvall and Lorenzen (theoretically)…they signed for less money I believe

As Cirensica

They didn’t sign López. They traded for him. Clevinger, I know I hate the move too, will likely provide the same or more value than Lorenzen. Duvall and Hackenberg would represent improvements but we’d still suck by a lot.

Last edited 1 month ago by As Cirensica
hitlesswonder

Yes – they could have not traded for Lopez and signed him to the arbitration avoiding $4.3M deal.

I’m not saying this is a big deal, but examples were asked for and I thought I’d try to provide one. The Sox are going to be paying $9M for (probably) negative war from those players.

mrridgman

Sox didn’t sign Lopez as a FA, he was one of 5 players acquired in trade (for Aaron Bummer, who currently has a 5.06 ERA, projected WAR 0.0).

Yes they could have signed Adam Duvall for $3M, he currently has 24 ABs, OPS .619. I was surprised that Duvall lasted as long as he did on the market. Lorenzen signed for $4.5M, 7M with incentives – he is injured and hasn’t pitched yet; projected WAR 1.2. Maldonado/Lopez total 8.55M, Duvall/Lorenzen total 7.5/10M. Call it a wash.

If Sox had Duvall and Lorenzen rather than Maldonado and Lopez do you think their record would be better?

chisoxt

Getz is horrible and in way over his head- maybe if he apprenticed under a capable GM he would have some decent skills… the white Sox also bet too much on a pitching guru (Brian Bannister) to give them an edge with pitching reclamation projects- total failure… they made the same mistake with Don Cooper late in his tenure

FishSox

I get what you’re saying but it’s dismissive of the negative impact Grif has on the team by being a disingenuous chump. It’s like saying Thanksgiving is ruined because the turkey is charred and while dismissing that the house is on fire.

South Side Hit Men

Call your sons! Call your daughters! Call your friends! Call your neighbors!

History!

– Hawk Harrelson

Blame it on Bridgeport

– Jerry Reinsdorf

Worst Fifteen Game Starts in White Sox History:

  1. 2-13: 2024 (TBD)
  2. 3-12: 1968 (67-95 .414), 1948 (51-101 .336), 1942 (66-82 .446)
  3. 4-11: 2018 (62-100 .383), 1958 (82-72 .532), 1950 (60-94 .390), 1934 (53-99 .349)

All Time Worst White Sox Winning Percentage (1932 .325) > 50-97 rest of season

All Time Most Losses (1970 106) > 53-94 rest of season

aseballnut

They might as well start Eloy in left.

FishSox

Might as well start him in center

funkerdan

I will continue to always watch White Sox baseball.

  1. I’m a fan
  2. It’s the only sport I watch
  3. at least them being this bad now, I can always reflect back on these times from a future where they are bad but they’re never going to be 2024 bad
  4. I really hope the end part of 3 is accurate…
  5. 4 wasn’t part of the list. so neither is 5.
  6. what else am I going to do? cut the grass? YOU CUT THE GRASS!
  7. get off my lawn!
FishSox

I’m glad I was sitting on the toilet or I would have crapped my pants laughing.

Last edited 1 month ago by FishSox
BenwithVen

They’re the definition of irrelevancy.

bfl5916

To the soxmachine community. What do all of you think is going on in the White Sox offices of all the big shots and little shots? Now if it was me any table or chair or mirror wouldn’t be safe. But that’s just me. I hate losing. I hate losing more than I like winning. One other thing. I wonder how a 14 or 15 or 20 year old current Sox chairman would feel if his beloved Brooklyn Dodgers would have fielded a team like the 2024 White Sox? I wonder!

Joliet Orange Sox

Jerry was 22 when the Dodgers moved from Brooklyn to LA. He may have been upset by the move at the time (although he had already moved to Chicago by the time of the move) but in the long term he seems to have learned a lesson about owners getting the best deals from the cities they play in. I expect if the Dodgers had fielded a team as bad as this Sox team in Jerry’s teens, he would’ve taken lessons about profit and tax advantages from it.

Shingos Cheeseburgers

As long as my pay and my name aren’t tied to on field performance and my salary is commensurate with my experience and skills I wouldn’t care one bit. I’m a pencil pusher at baseball team which is about as irreverent as a job as exists. It’s not like I’m working for Raytheon or a payday loan company.

Hell even if I’m Chris Getz I probably don’t care since sure everyone is dragging my name online but everyone online probably knows it’s not actually me making all these terrible decisions.

670WMAQtheElder

I think about all the young people who work in ticket sales. I’ve met some. I’m sure some boss set unrealistic goals they have to meet for ticket sales. It has got to be very disheartening for them.

hitlesswonder

The Royals lost 103 games last season and had a minor league system ranked notably lower than the Sox. It’s true the Sox payroll was/is bloated with fragile and underperforming players, but the Sox should be able to spend notably more money than KC.

Anyway KC went out and tried to sign legit major league talent. I assume the Sox would have thought that was laughably stupid and probably still do. But I’d rather be a Royals fan than a fan of the wannabe Royals.

FishSox

The pragmatist in me wonders if they were altruistic baseball moves or efforts to sway public sentiment for newer digs.

Last edited 1 month ago by FishSox
hitlesswonder

Whatever the motivation, the Royals look like an actual major league team that will provide their fans with more than 40 moments of joy this season. Fangraphs list them as having a 30% chance of making the playoffs.

The Sox probably could have had that if they kept the payroll at $180M…around #12 in the league. And as a bonus, if they had signed a few decent players, they would have already started on building their next good team instead of waiting till 2027 or 2028.

VAChisox

So, if this play continues, at some point, record futility will draw national attention. That will bring unwelcome attention onto the organization that may, perhaps, create enough embarrassment to prompt the kind of scrutiny JR doesn’t want. As of now, nobody notices, so JR doesn’t care. But if the futility is on a record pace, eyes will be on the White Sox.

FishSox

While what you say may be true, it begs the question…then what? If there are mechanisims to rid baseball of him, I’d sure like to know what they are.

As Cirensica

As of now, nobody notices, so JR doesn’t care.

The White Sox fans notice which should matter more than the rest, but I guess JR doesn’t care.

Member

Sox have often been a national embarrassment. Nothing really changes, excepting a couple of names on the C-suite doors last season.

Last edited 1 month ago by Member
StockroomSnail

They will rehire somebody then fire them again…let’s say…hawk?

670WMAQtheElder

I don’t know if Getz is good or bad. He was next up in the organization and JR wasn’t going to pay for an outsider. Money is the #1 and only thing that JR cares about. He and his top guys, other than Getz, are only focussed on that Project 78 deal and walking away from GRF and Bridgeport. JR has checked out. Boyer said it: GRF and Bridgeport are the cause of all the problems.

JR has done something unique: he broke the bond between the Sox and the Southside identity. The Sox have been bad before but the community stuck with the team. It was their team, right? As the song says, root, root for the White Sox and whoever is playing the Cubs. Not anymore.

I want my team back. It doesn’t belong to JR. It belongs to the community. All sports teams do, in truth. So here’s the problem with all these very rich guys, be they Musk or Bezos or Dimon or guys I’ve never heard of: they think they did everything by themselves. They deny there is anything called “community”, or if you prefer, stakeholders.

Chicago, Bridgeport, the Southside, all the fans, the employees who work in concessions, or clean the stadium or cut the grass are the stakeholders that JR and his ilk ignore. And for what? A few bucks you can’t take with you anyway.

runsoxrun

Maybe this series was an unpublicized tribute to the 1919 White Sox?

As Cirensica

White Sox close to sign 36 yr old OF Tommy Pham, and I see no point in this. We already have Pillar and Grossman. Why add another aging AAAA outfielder?

Alfornia Jones

he’s a league avg bat, we have openings.

FishSox

I doubt they’ll take down the help wanted ad after the signing though.

FishSox

They want to move him to 3B.

LamarHoyt_oncrack

Of course there is no point. But I do find humor that he could actually wind up being the best hitter on the team with Robert out. With the bar so low, there is no exaggeration there.

StockroomSnail

He’ll teach the youngins how to accumulate 18 career WAR.

As Cirensica

Maybe he should be our manager and slap around some players to awake them.

FishSox

Sox sign Cory Abbott 

Joliet Orange Sox

The season is saved!

Last edited 1 month ago by Joliet Orange Sox
As Cirensica

Who?

Member

The fellow playing first base.

Joliet Orange Sox

Has anyone approached Cory Abbott to see if he would be open to being nicknamed “Bud” Abbott?

Member

“Son, there are far too many punch-lines on our roster. We need a straight-man.”

As Cirensica

There are gonna be some helluva Sporcles in a few years

FishSox

I had a hard enough time with the players from the end of last season.

StockroomSnail

He’s appeared in the majors in each of the past three seasons, logging a collective 104 1/3 innings between the Cubs — who selected him in the second round of the 2017 draft — and the Nationals. In that time, Abbott has scuffled with a 6.02 ERA, 20.2% strikeout rate and 11.4% walk rate.

LamarHoyt_oncrack

Sounds like a White Sox to me!

StockroomSnail

107 losses to go…this is like if the Titanic set sail while already on fire.

FishSox

Titanic Capt. Jerry Reinsdorf was quoted as saying, “Sideswipe that iceberg and open this thing up like a tin can! That’ll quench this fire!”

NickMog1425

I’m a Giants fan that has always kind of rooted for the White Sox from afar and I am absolutely fascinated w/ this franchise now.

You will all probably want to throw things at me, but I totally agree w/ Getz’s decision to blow up the “rebuild” and start totally over. Because the rebuild in my view was taken w/ shortcuts and it’s also why it only resulted in 2 playoff seasons(1 being a full season).

I actually wish that the Giants would truly rebuild in this excruciatingly painful way. I also think about how certain GM’s are amazing at finding depth and building depth…if Farhan Zaidi was the GM of the White Sox post-2020 they would probably still be rolling injuries and all. Zaidi’s issue is that he cannot find or develop a star to save his life. Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams to me anyway, did a pretty good job at acquiring premium talent but they did an absolutely horrible job at building up depth. I also think they completely ruined Andrew Vaughn who was going to be an important cog in that vision.

Anyway, not that any of you care. But I am an outsider who likes what Getz is doing despite these bad news bears early results. The hire of Bannister was a very good one and you will see that he has a knack for unlocking some talent and making some middling guys much better than they have been. Not sure about the hitting side of things but a farm system w/ Montgomery, Ramos, and Quero is not too bad of a start.

Interested to see where this ends up.

NickMog1425

I don’t really mean in a “tanking for draft pick” sort of way but moreso in a “trim all this fat” sort of way. From an outsider, and I could be wrong, but it seems as if the franchise under Hahn and Kenny W were severely behind in all of the “infrastructure” aspects of a baseball org. Like pitching labs, trackman, rhapsodo, applying the data and science to it. Player performance facilities and stuff like that. Not sure if Jerry will be open to any of that but if Getz is hiring a guy like Bannister that kind of tells me he knows how far behind they were in all of those things.

They’re going to have to target high school talent if they are picking 10th or worse after this season(5th in 24, right?) and they are gonna have to pick up smaller assets along the way, and flip those for future assets. It’s not a quick turn. But just from my layman’s first glance at the farm system currently, seems like there’s already a few high upside pieces. Lacking the depth that the big boys have, but that’s something that a guy like Bannister will have a big effect at turning around.

Logan Webb was a middling close-to-bust overslot 4th round prospect w/ the giants before Bannister joined the organization and he completely overhauled him. Changed his entire motion from an over the top drop and drive 4-seam carry guy to a low 3/4 slot sinker/slider guy. Now he’s a perennial 3-4 win pitcher and pretty good #2. There’s going to be some wins and development successes like that on the pitching front and hitting seems to be more of a black box thing than pitching which is why I think they should shoot for upside in IFA and high school bats like the Orioles did. It’s not impossible. Things looked remarkably bleak for the Orioles in 2019 and they did not have the #1 pick every year. Even if you removed Clutchman and Holliday from their org right now they would be looking pretty pretty sweet. Though yeah those guys do help.

As Cirensica

Thank you for your perspective from the Giants’ side. Very interesting. Being a White Sox fan in recent years have been excruciating, and I feel we haven’t reached the bottom yet. I think we will by the end of this year.

BillyKochFanClub

I appreciate your perspective as well. I do like the Bannister hire, but what Getz has done has been somewhat of a mixed bag for me process-wise (results-wise, it’s been brutal so far).

Bannister – Good!
Keeping Pedro – 🤮 (hopefully this was Jerry and not Getz)

Barfield – Good!
Watson – 🤮

Moving Crochet to the rotation – I love the idea and he has been a bright spot so far
Clevinger – 🤮

Improving defense and attempting to clean up fundamentals on major league roster – good idea that has been unraveling lately and may fall short of that intended goal.
Ignoring the offense – 🤮

Trades – I like them although the Fletcher one may not age well if he doesn’t find another gear
FA – 🤮

So on and so forth. I’m hoping this is something along the lines when the Reds completely bottomed out after their push a couple of years ago which will take time to see positive results. Unfortunately, Jerry just handing the job to Getz along with years of dysfunction has earned this team skepticism and the belief that this is just another long journey to another dead end.

FishSox

I would love to see a piece from SM about the true value of high draft picks and if certain orgs are significantly better at the prognostication game than others. I realize quite a bit is dependent on player development but it would still be fascinating. I’ve always believed fans put way too much emphasis in draft order than is warranted. Sort of like the way the Packers keep coming up with solid QB’s that aren’t top 10 picks.

I remember Perfect Games big shindig at the A’s Florida complex back in 2006. A LHP out of Georgia that was low to mid 90’s was the consensus #1 at the time for the 07 draft. Josh Smoker wound up getting picked 31 and then didn’t make his MLB debut until 2016. BTW, Jason Heyward played on Smokers team and looked like he was already 35 years old.

Warren Z

Pedro must go.

This team lacks talent, but it should not be this bad.

If Ozzie is willing, have him manage the team the rest of the season.

Dirt

Haven’t you always been against ozzie coming back since he quit on the team? I’ve always kind of agreed with that, as well. Plus the fact he hasn’t managed in MLB in over a decade.

But screw it. Might as well ask. It’s crazy that the ’24 Sox are so bad that they’ve changed your and my mind on bringing Ozzie back to manage. At this point, why the hell not? Can’t get any worse.

md03

I don’t think anyone wanted this but yeah at this point how much worse could it get? Also would help Jerry’s key issue of not having to pay multiple people.

As Cirensica

Haven’t you always been against ozzie coming back since he quit on the team?

We are gonna hold onto this banner forever? That was almost 15 years ago. I believe current Ozzie is quite different than what he was a few years ago, but this could be a hot debate not worth having while everything is wishful thinking and speculation.

Dirt

I hear you. It was a long time ago and as I mentioned, I’ve come around on the idea. Ozzie really does seem to care a lot about this organization, more than Jerry.

I was just a little surprised to see Warren warming up to it.