Sox Machine Live: What should the White Sox do at the Trade Deadline?

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  • Josh Nelson

    Josh Nelson is the host and producer of the Sox Machine Podcast. For show suggestions, guest appearances, and sponsorship opportunities, you can reach him via email at josh@soxmachine.com.

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LamarHoyt_oncrack

This turd front office and ownership of sell-outs should sell at the deadline. Hard. And, sell the damn team.

Trooper Galactus

I’d prefer a sell-off/tank to get more draft capital than standing pat and reaching for a marginal chance that the division remains bad enough for this team to win it. Unfortunately, that also means rewarding Rick Hahn with yet another rebuild. There’s no good solution for fans.

Nope, it feels totally hopeless right now. Even if there was a miracle and Jerry fired everybody and hired a great head of baseball operations, we’re still looking at years of losing before it could be turned around. The system is barren right now.

Wayne

You trust this organization to:

  • get a decent deal for their depressed assets
  • identify the right talent from other teams for those trades
  • develop talent they have in the system to fully reach their potential
  • keep the talent healthy
Trooper Galactus

No. I also don’t trust the team to compete for the playoffs, even in this shitty division. There’s no good solution, but at least selling now picks a lane forward instead of standing pat and risking losing assets for nothing.

As Cirensica

I prefer a sell as well. I think there’s no point in maintaining the status quo. I have seen enough of this team. Maybe Hahn can luck out and get an out of the radar player that becomes in a Fernando Tatis Jr. (yeah…I am laughing too).

Last edited 11 months ago by As Cirensica
roke1960

But what good would that do as long as the 3 stooges are in charge. In the last rebuild, Hahn acquired these players (with their 2017 prospect ranking in parentheses):
Moncada (2), Giolito (12), Eloy (14), Kopech (16), Rutherford (37), Lopez (45), Cease (77). That’s 4 players in the top 16, and 7 in the top 77. Do you honestly think he can get anyone in the top 20, or more than 1 or 2 players in the top 100 with what he has to sell now? If the 3 stooges screwed up a rebuild that netted 4 top 20 players and Dylan Cease, what would they do with a rebuild that doesn’t get anywhere close to that? They have NO chance at success as long as the 3 stooges are running the show. By letting Hahn sell now, you are allowing him to start yet another rebuild. At a minimum, Hahn must be fired first. Kenny must go also for a chance at any kind of success. And for the long term health of the team, JERRY MUST SELL.

Augusto Barojas

Jerry is 87 years old. There is a mathematical chance he is no longer among the living in the next couple or few years. If that happens, or even if it doesn’t, they would be better off having gotten whatever they can for guys leaving soon, than nothing.

This team is 2-13 in series outside the central. That’s losing 85 percent. They are on pace to finish 68-94. They aren’t winning any division. They are more likely to finish 15 games out than catch either the Twins or Guards. They will probably fall even further in the next week vs Boston and the Angels. While unlikely, Hahn has gotten some good players in trades. Gio plus Dunning/Lopez for Eaton for example. To get what they can for guys leaving is the only sensible thing to do, even if as you suggest it is unlikely to lead to anything if Hahn + Jerry remain. The alternative is letting guys leave for nothing, while watching this team lose 90 anyway. That would be pointless, and stupid. To think this team is going to come back and make a run just b/c 80 games might win the division is crack pipe stuff. They will be lucky to win 70. To make the best of a bad situation, it is time to sell. And probably time for fans to find another team until Jerry dies or sells, unless they are masochists. They averaged 90 losses for 7 years from 2013 to 2019. That’s the next era Sox fans have to look forward to. This is year 1.

Right Size Wrong Shape

He could also live another 15 years. Waiting for healthy old man to die is a pretty depressing strategy.

Augusto Barojas

True. I think the best strategy is to forget about this ridiculous organization altogether.

Right Size Wrong Shape

You’re right, but I know that I won’t.

roke1960

I’m very close. And I think I will have the strength to follow through until the 3 stooges are gone.

doubled

Should have let them move to Tampa when we had the chance

roke1960

You’re best point is: And probably time for fans to find another team until Jerry dies or sells, unless they are masochists.  If they let Hahn start another rebuild, I will very likely stop following the team until Jerry is gone. I’ve only watched 2 games this year- the opener and the first game in Minnesota. I’m still following on Gameday sometimes, but it’s getting closer and closer to the point where I’ll probably stop doing that. After being a fan for over 50 years, these bumbling idiots may have finally driven me away. And the last 50+ years have been mostly depressing, but now it seems like they really, really don’t care about the fans or even about winning. And the worst part is, they keep doubling and tripling down on their arrogance, stupidity, cheapness, etc. They are daring us to leave. And that’s just what I’m about to do.

Augusto Barojas

They are going to lose most of any remaining fan loyalty or interest. I cannot fathom a scenario where I would buy a ticket to a game until there is a new owner and/or GM. I’ve been a fan for 40 years. I somehow manage to distance myself from the Bears bad seasons, I’ve barely followed them the past 20 years aside from their Superbowl appearance. I need to do that with this team. Utterly pointless when you think about it. To talk endlessly about and follow a team that probably won’t see a playoff game again for 5-10 years? That’s in the category of pointless. This team has added almost nothing to my life in the past 15 years other than disappointment and frustration, aside from the latter days of Buehrle and Konerko. There is no quality to this current team whatsover. It’s an OCD/addiction thing really, makes no sense that anybody would care about this team at all.

Anyway I feel your disappointment and disgust, they’ve driven me to leave as well.

Last edited 11 months ago by Augusto Barojas
roke1960

It’s just a very sad and infuriating situation, and they really seem to be clueless as to the fan’s frustrations. Attendance is dropping dramatically, and they keep doing the same things over and over and over. If Hahn is allowed to trade pieces this summer and keep his job, I will stop following them, even on Gameday. And I will not return until at least Hahn is fired, or Jerry spends big on free agents, showing a shift in his strategy. And we all know that the latter is not going to happen. I have a strong feeling that my 50+ years of following the White Sox is coming to an end. That is very sad. Thanks, Jerry.

As Cirensica

I just have to accept to try to enjoy what we have whenever. There is just not other way. Well, there is not following the White Sox anymore, but I can’t give up baseball. It is my favorite sport. So I will moan like many of us, and accept, and enjoy every time there is a reason for it which is not often. Nothing last forever. I am 52. I hope I will live enough to see another GM and another owner.

doubled

60 years here. When I was young and stupid I thought they were going to to win in the early seventies but the amazing A’s were in the way. But at least they were a winning baseball team then and competed. Other than the Ozzie era this has been one of the worst baseball francises in the league

doubled

Totally agree

chibaseball35

Get what you can for everyone. Watched Sox-Dodgers from June 05′ tonight, no games on tonight. This team is extremely far from a great team and a team that knows how to win. Almost 20 years since we’ve seen an actual great team, sad.

StockroomSnail

Is “fold the franchise” an option?

SpringerDinger!

Final answer:
Go on a “free agent” hiring spree by poaching from the Rays Analytic / Player Development departments

As Cirensica

In this Athletic article, it is analyzed how the new competitive advantage is speed and athleticism under baseball new rules. They look into how the Reds, DBacks, and Orioles surprising surges are capitalizing on speed.

Once again Rick Hahn is caught zigging when everybody was zagging by constructing this monstrosity of slow and unathletic players.

https://theathletic.com/4632014/2023/06/23/orioles-diamondbacks-reds-mlb-new-rules/

A tidbit. the article then goes on with similar analysis for the Orioles and the Reds

DIAMONDBACKS MANAGER TOREY LOVULLO: “I think we were just drafting really good, strong, athletic players. But once those new rules fell into our space, we felt like we were in a really good spot to enhance what we felt like was already a very, very strong athletic team.”

The DBacks lead the majors in taken the extra base.

SpringerDinger!

Listen, we’re just a Big Frank, Paulie and Thome away from running roughshod over the entire league alright?

Trooper Galactus

Their rebuild was centered around hyper-athletic position players in Moncada, Anderson, and Robert. They used the fourth overall draft pick on Nick Madrigal, who was supposed to be a plus runner. They were running out rosters with Adam Engel and Leury Garcia, both of whose primary assets were speed and not a lot else.

The greater issue is that they keep developing players with no secondary skills and terrible swing profiles. Gavin Sheets pounds the ball into the ground constantly and doesn’t tap into his double-plus raw power. Andrew Vaughn is one of the worst defenders in all of baseball at any position he plays, and even on a team with Yasmani Grandal his slowness stands out. Almost nobody who’s come through their system works a count or draws many walks. Guys who have tons of athletic gifts (Yoelqui Cespedes, Micker Adolfo, Courtney Hawkins) are constantly undermined by their terrible plate approaches.

Colson Montgomery and even Terrell Tatum (and Duke Ellis to a lesser extent) interest me not just because they put up numbers, but because their approaches and production is in such stark contrast to typical White Sox prospects. One of the only prospects the White Sox developed who could reliably draw a walk was Zack Collins, who was himself undermined by myriad other issues.

roke1960

“I’d love to stay. I want to be here, man. I love Chicago. I love the Sox. I want us to put it together, man. I really do.”

– Lucas Giolito on the White Sox Talk podcast

It’s time for Jerry to pony up. Pay the man. Start to show you’re serious about winning. If Hahn trades Giolito, I’m done.

Augusto Barojas

“Start to show you’re serious about winning”. It’s a bit too late for someone to do that when they haven’t for 40 years, and aren’t. In 2006 when they traded for Thome and got Vazquez following their World Series, that’s the only time I’ve ever been happy with ownership effort.

They’ve stated that they aren’t going to re-sign Gio (I think was said through Nigtengale). Even if they changed their minds (which would mean Jerry is suddenly willing to PAY him, which I doubt), they can trade him and then sign him in the offseason. I think he is their most valuable trade chip, and most likely player to get traded. Getting the most in return as well.

BenwithVen

I would love nothing more than for Jerry to get rid of everyone, hire someone like James Click or David Stearns, give them a budget and tell to do what they need to do.

But it’s Jerry Reinsdorf, so he’d be more likely to hire Clint Hurdle or Neil Huntington because how much he hates how modern baseball teams are run.

With that being said, it looks we’re about to enter another dark age.

roke1960

I agree with your first sentence but you should have stopped at give them a budget. That’s all they need from Jerry. He does not need to tell them what to do, because he has no idea what to do.

BenwithVen

that 2nd part was supposed to read “tell them to do what they need to do” lol

roke1960

Ok, if Jerry hires anyone with value, he needs to do what McCaskey did with Poles- get out of his way and let him make all the decisions.

Augusto Barojas

Click would certainly work. Probably can never happen, but he’s not working and certainly knows how to rebuild.

Trooper Galactus

I’d make the caveat, give them a CONSISTENT budget to work with. Not this bullshit where they spend big for one season (mostly on short-term stuff that makes minimal or even negative impact) then immediately start cutting in subsequent years.

doubled

Back up the truck and move the team