P.O. Sox: When to sell, if selling is still necessary

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670WMAQtheElder

I’d like to see Michael Jordan buy the team. He’s as competitive as they come. But would he put his money in the Reinsdorf estate’s pocket?

BenwithVen

If his time as owner of the Bobcats/Hornets is any indication, he’d probably be a bigger train wreck than Jerry.

upnorthsox

Yeah, hard to believe it’s possible but then the proof is right there to see.

Trooper Galactus

Isn’t he the one who insisted they draft Kwame Brown first overall?

Chris

Jim, regarding your response on trading GIolito:

postseason appearance/division title is probably worth more to Rick Hahn than what he can get for a half-season rental of Giolito, even if they win that division with 79 games.

With no depth and a barren minor league system that is in the bottom echelon of MLB… can’t this cadre of buffoons (Hahn, William, Reinsdorf) see, that it would be better to trade Giolito for something now, rather than get nothing later when he walks.

Giolito is gone in the off season. Even if they do by some miracle offer to extend him… I think he has seen enough of this clown show owner & front office, he wants out. Plus add the teams (Reisndorf’s) acrimony towards Boras… it just does not make sense.

And, the Sox almost never extend the QO to free agents for fear of them accepting it. Even if by some miracle, they get into the playoffs… they are all but assured of a quick first round exit. They cannot complete with the power teams in the AL.

So in the end, they end up with nothing and perpetuate the losing culture.

roke1960

I think they hang onto him because they know that this is probably the most talent they will have in the organization for a few years. If they traded Giolito now, they would not get short-term talent back nearly equal to what they would lose. They will lose Grandal at the end of the year, probably won’t pick up Lynn’s option, and they don’t have anyone in the minors that can replace them now. So unless Jerry spends big this winter to replace those guys, and we know he almost certainly won’t, this is as good as it gets talent-wise for this organization. With the fact that they are currently 10-under .500 in what was most likely the prime year for contention, that speaks volumes about the ineptitude of this FO. But will there be changes? Almost certainly not.

Get ready for rebuild 3 starting next year!!!

Last edited 9 months ago by roke1960
Chris

Giolito is a free agent at the end of this season. While he is not elite at this juncture… someone will come in and at least offer him a one year prove it deal for $25-$30 million. And it won’t be the Sox. He is outta here no matter what.

So again, better to get something now, than ZERO when he leaves this winter.

Trooper Galactus

Whether they get a draft pick or trade for some mid-level prospect, Hahn’s track record suggests it will, in fact, be nothing.

HallofFrank

A playoff appearance is certainly worth more than what they’d get for Gioltio. Rodon is the only player I can recall that was probably deserving of a QO that they didn’t extend—and he was a borderline case. Surely that doesn’t count as a pattern. If Giolito finishes the season strong, they’ll extend a QO.

If they are 6+ out of first in mid-July, then sure—move Gio for what you can get. But as long as they are within 5 GB of 1st in July, I don’t see the point in moving him. I don’t think they’d get as much as Sox fans seem to think, and they certainly wouldn’t get enough to make this system notably better. They might as well shoot for a playoff spot in a historically weak AL Central. It may never be easier to win than right now.

roke1960

I agree 100%. If they don’t win this year in a historically bad division, they aren’t winning the next few years. Unless Jerry actually acquires high quality free agents in the next few years, the talent level on the major league roster will continue to decline year after year. There are 4 options moving forward:

1.Catch lightning in a bottle, hope all the stars align, and this team actually wins something this year. 2.Trade players that can fetch some kind of prospects and hope that Rick gets it right on rebuild 3.3.Jerry spends on free agents over the next few winters.4.Jerry gets rid of the team.The odds on number 2 panning out are probably 0, and the odds on number 3 happening are less than 0, so we’re left with option 1 and 4. And 4 probably won’t happen for awhile.

Last edited 9 months ago by roke1960
bobsquad

I don’t expect much, but the Pirates got 5 years of control of Johan Oviedo (plus a 40 FV-type prospect) for half a season of Jose Quintana and 1.5 seasons of Chris Stratton. Oviedo was in the Pirates rotation a month later, and he looks like a legit #4/5 starter.

Best case I see is that Cease-Kopech-Lynn look like a passable 1-2-3 in July and a Giolito trade doesn’t look like a white flag. Hahn rarely seems to make trades that are motivated by value rather than talent, so I don’t trust him to pull off something like this.

HallofFrank

Yeah I probably wouldn’t trade Giolito for 5 years of a #4/5 starter if I thought the Sox had a shot of winning the division. To me, that’s what it comes down to. If they are in a playoff race, then keep Gioltio. Give it a run and offer him a QO in the offseason.

Trooper Galactus

Personally, I don’t want another one-and-done playoff appearance (thanks in large part to the woeful state of their division) to validate Hahn, nor will I take any satisfaction in them getting trounced quickly in the postseason, which they would be.

HallofFrank

They might get trounced but you never know. Get in, hope you don’t draw the Astros, and see what happens. The inferior team often wins in the playoffs. Plus, if the Sox do somehow make the playoffs, that means some other things have gone right. I wouldn’t bet on the Sox against any team in the playoffs. But a Cease-Gio-Kopech rotation has a shot.

The long and short of it: if you’re waiting for the White Sox to be a juggernaut and favorites to win the whole thing, you might as well find a different team.

Trooper Galactus

Name me one team they could conceivably play in the playoffs who you’d give them a ghost of a chance in a series against.

upnorthsox

I was going to say Detroit but…….

Alfornia Jones

June should provide the proof one way or the other. My money is on the Sox being buried by July 1st, or in any event being decisively bad. Hopefully its clear by June 15, but I like surprises too.

The best way to rid ourselves of Kenny/Hahn is more losing. Being in contention in the AL Central is fool’s gold, its not real. Pray for losing, pray for sea change in FO leadership. New ownership isn’t happening anytime soon, this is the best we can do.

Winning the AL Central is the White Sox lowering the expectations of their fans, don’t fall for it.

roke1960

What prospective GM worth hiring would choose to work for Jerry? New FO would be just as bad as the current one. Jerry is the one who has to go.

Last edited 9 months ago by roke1960
BenwithVen

Exactly. It’d either be Chris Getz or Jeremy Haber, or even better, TLR as president of Baseball Ops. The only way out is through.

Alfornia Jones

Selling an MLB franchise can be a multi-year process, its not happening anytime soon. The current iteration of the Bulls isn’t great, but way better than the last years of the GarPax regime. He’s turned the keys over (mostly) to competent basketball people, my money is on them doing the same for the White Sox after a humiliating 2023 season. 4th place finish would be icing on the top.

All it would take is for someone to sell the TB/MIL/CLE low cost model. How could he not buy into that?

I’m still waiting for the new Bulls regime to exhibit competence.

roke1960

Michael Reinsdorf was in charge of the Bulls change of leadership. I don’t think Jerry has it in him to hire somebody smarter than him.

ParisSox

Normally I’d agree with this but since I don’t trust them to retool/ rebuild properly, I’m rooting that they keep everyone and go for it. A playoff appearance, albeit a short one, is at least a short term positive outcome.

Trading guys and sucking next year anyways is continued negative outcomes.

Just give us one thing to smile about already

Greg Nix

In hindsight, Hahn should absolutely have moved Montgomery over the offseason for an impact piece. Not much point in only have one good prospect, when he could get hurt or bust at any time.

a-t

eh, I don’t think I agree. Even if this year was going well and they were winning/would win the division comfortably, they’ve got to do something of a reset this offseason no matter what, with Giolito, Lynn, and Grandal walking, and TA here but with just a year remaining.

Anyways, Montgomery wasn’t and still isn’t a risky prospect. Re injury, he’s not a pitcher, he’s not an outfielder who crashes into walls nor an unathletic slugger prone to dismember himself doing normal baseball things, nor does he have an extensive injury history. As for bust risk: his chase and K rates are very good esp for his age/level, the hit tool looked good, and he’s not really in danger of being forced way down the defensive spectrum (SS to 3B/2B is much less bad than say Collins’ fall from C to 1B/DH). He’s very likely to be a major league contributor, and god knows the Sox and their perennial depth issues need that.

vanillablue

A sentence that begins “In hindsight, Hahn should absolutely have” can only end with “resigned” or “been fired”

Trooper Galactus

Think long and hard about the track record of the guy doing the trading then tell me you’d still like for this to happen.

Adam

I disagree. In 2012-2014 area, it looked like Jose Altuve was destined to be the bright spot of a terrible Astro period. Then the right people came along with great luck in terms of draft talent available and he becomes the veteran presence of an incredible period.

You also never know what lower level guys develop. It’s still possible Ramos and Colas are special. Maybe a Chapelli, Gladney, Romy, or Sosa becomes something. Then you have a base. Get lucky with a draft pick or two. You never know

dongutteridge

The only thing that we know for sure is that whichever route management decides to go will be a failure. They’ve proven their incompetence many times over.

roke1960

It’s interesting to compare the Bears and White Sox moves lately. The McCaskeys continued to stick with Ted Phillips, a non-football guy for years, leading to one failed GM after another. McCaskey finally decided to poach one of the top organizations in football and got Poles, then gave him free rein. Now they brought in an A+ hire to be team president in Kevin Warren. And their future looks very bright. Jerry continues to stick with Hahn and Kenny for failure after failure with the future of the organization looking bleaker and bleaker with each passing year. McCaskey finally figured out that it was time for some new blood at the top and it seems to be working out. I don’t think Jerry’s ego and wallet would allow him to bring in new blood and give them free rein to fix the Sox. So we’re stuck.

LamarHoyt_oncrack

The Bears are the only team in this city worth following at the moment. Cubs are a long ways away but at least their owner is not allergic to free agents. Sox are turdville until Jerry dies.

shaggy65

I think the new Blackhawks GM has been making very shrewd moves in his first year. They have tons of extra draft picks and a bona fide superstar coming soon. The Hawks will still lose a lot next year, but they’ll be fun to follow!

Joliet Orange Sox

I don’t follow NFL football but I do follow the Big Ten. Kevin Warren left his job as Big Ten commissioner partly because there was very little chance he would be extended after irking the college presidents, AD’s, coaches, and fans repeatedly. His successor has spent much of his first few weeks on the job airing out problems he inherited from Warren (such as unfinalized TV contracts, commitments for teams to play mid/late November night home games,…) to make sure Warren takes the blame. He may be a good choice for running an NFL team but I’m surprised he is considered an A+ hire.

Last edited 9 months ago by Joliet Orange Sox