FutureSox Podcast ft. Sleepy Harold: All eyes on Chicago White Sox Oscar Colás & Lenyn Sosa

Mike Rankin and James Fox welcomed on FutureSox & Sox Machine contributor Steve Hasman, aka Sleepy Harold, to get his take on the recent international signing period as well as his expectations for the 2023 Chicago White Sox. The Athletic’s James Fegan spoke to White Sox MiLB hitting coordinator Andy Barkett about Oscar Colás and Barkett provided telling quotes about Colás’ mental approach to hitting. Later, the group discussed Lenyn Sosa projections. 

Spotify — https://open.spotify.com/show/3n2MHOBJsncp3DjHbcjXZL

Apple — https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futuresox-podcast/id850054474

Podbay — https://podbay.fm/p/futuresox-podcast

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Augusto Barojas

I hope I’m wrong, but I’m guessing the jabbering from Eloy about how he is preparing for outfield means that Colas will start the year at AAA for service time shenanigans. Can they at least put their best team on the field when they’ve done next to nothing to fix it?

I’m sure the Eloy in RF experiment will bear bad fruit in no time, hopefully without him doing serious harm to himself or Robert.

knoxfire30

Think I have gone back and forth on it being shenanigans or not ten plus times over the years. If the players wanted service time to be changed they should fight harder for it during bargaining. At the same time the sox not playing their best out of the gate would be annoying AF given their lack of desire to really want to spend/contend.

Any game Eloy plays in RF is a game too many and I cant believe given what we know its actually being considered. Its on Kenny, Rick, and Pedro to nip this thing in the butt.

Royals seem to be selling… just traded mondesi for practically nothing to the redsox…. sure he has been hurt but he is 27 and has upside not sure what their game plan is.

Willardmarshall

Or Benintendi !

Augusto Barojas

I would hope Benintendi was safe! Unless they plan to get Eloy some time in CF as well, which I guess is not out of the question with the minds that run this team.

HallofFrank

So the theory here is that the top levels of the White Sox Front Office reached out to Eloy in January to ask him if he’d give an interview to complain about playing DH and say he wants to play more OF… so they can start Colas in AAA? That’s about as bizarre and cynical a view as I’ve seen on here, and that is saying something.

The White Sox don’t need an Eloy-Decoy to hold Colas in AAA. They can simply say, “he’s played seven games in AAA.” That’s about 900% more effective and plausible than having Eloy say he wants to play in RF. If the Sox hold Colas down, it will have precisely zero to do with this interview.

Augusto Barojas

How did you possibly twist my words into suggesting that the interview was staged or something to justify starting Colas at AAA? Your comments border on the most nonsensical and divorced from reality of anybody on here sometimes.

I’m merely stating the obvious. That there is that much chatter from Eloy and Grifol about him playing RF probably means that he is going to play some there, given that Benintendi was presumably signed to play LF. And that probably means that their plan is to start Colas at AAA, which is undoubtedly more about service time nonsense than them trying to start the year with their best team on the field. Show me any adult that knows anything about baseball that thinks Eloy is going to be a good RF someday, or that thinks him playing there is a solid idea to address the RF problems they’ve had for 3 years.

bobsquad

I read this “chatter” as a new manager simply being paternalistic and setting expectations for his players going into ST. I’m sure Grifol is well aware of Eloy’s injury risk, but is attempting to send a message to a young/capable player that he be physically and mentally prepared to take the field. As you would expect from any manager of personnel.

Certainly by May Grifol will act in his own interest and will play someone anyone else in right field 5 days a week. This is neither as serious nor as sinister as service time manipulation, collusion with the FO, misplaced faith in “internal options”, etc.

HallofFrank

You made an explicit connection between the “jabbering from Eloy” and the Front Office’s plan for Colas. I’m wondering: how could those things be related? That’s why I posed the first comment in the form of a question: what is the theory?

We have no disagreements on Eloy’s ability to play the OF. And it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Colas started in AAA, thanks to service time shenanigans. So we agree there, too. But I don’t think Eloy’s comments—basically, “I don’t want to DH, I want to play the OF”—have anything to do with the Front Office’s decision. I can’t see a clear connection, beyond odd conspiracies like the one I posed above.

If you’re weighing Grifol’s comments against more than a grain of salt, I think you have less reason to think they’ll start Colas in AAA, not more. Not only did he go on and on about how Colas would be given every shot to win the job, he pretty clearly said he only wanted to play Eloy out there once or twice per week.

a-t

it seems like it’s more Eloy expressing his desires to play the OF than the team’s desire to have him bumbling around out there regularly. he doesn’t want to be restrained to DH bc of pride, he wants to be a “two-way player”. Grifol telling him to be ready to do that and then saying to the media that he might play RF 1-2 times a week translates to “we’ll play him there occasionally for lineup flexibility, and to keep him happy & extra motivated with conditioning” not “this is The Plan”

Bonus Baby

To me, it’s too late for giving in to his desires to be a two-way player. He’s had way too many injuries, his bat is way too important, and he’s not a good defensive outfielder in any case. In the words of Nancy Reagan: Just say no.

a-t

oh yeah I don’t particularly care. but I also don’t really care if he stands around in RF/LF for like 30 games a year for like platoon advantage etc

BenwithVen

I was always of the opinion that Eloy would see like 50-60 games in the field. Other guys are going to need to DH and have days off, and his bat is too good for him to just be on the bench. It is what it is.

knoxfire30

Eloy arguably has the best bat in the lineup, he needs to be in the lineup, he is 26 and he should only need a handful of extra off days if he is dh’ing.

Im not risking Eloy hurting himself or others trying to play right field cause grandal wants to dh, or moncada wants to dh, this team needs to get infinitely tougher on the field and with their thinking about lineup construction.

BenwithVen

It’s not matter of “want to”, other guys are going to need to DH or have days off so they don’t run themselves into the ground.

Like, we all know Robert isn’t playing a full 162. And personally, on days like that, I’d rather have a a Beni/Colas/Eloy OF than Beni/**insert player here**/Colas one.

knoxfire30

I fundamentally disagree I think Eloys bat is more important then anyone elses so if Robert, Moncada, Vaughn whoever need a day off I would just have them take the day off. For the 10-15 times Eloy may need a day off you can sneak a different guy at DH.

There is no reason the regulars cant play 150 or so games, they have been coddled for years and it has produced 0 playoff series wins and done nothing to keep their roster healthy.

We are on year 4 of Eloy proving he cant play the outfield, running him out there at any point would be foolish.

BenwithVen

They haven’t been coddled, they’ve been hurt and mismanaged. And if Eloy’s body can’t hold up for 50 games in the field, then he should be traded.

knoxfire30

“rest days” is like 2nd nature to these guys, theyve been coddled and hurt and mismanaged

Bonus Baby

If Robert went down right now, I’d much prefer Beni/Colas/Sheets right now. Sheets is not a good OF, but he’s not such a huge injury risk, and his bat is not so crucial to the team.

Really, though, the answer to this is to GET A REAL 4TH OF! I like Laureano. If not him, someone else. Just get it done.

And I agree with the folks saying if others need a day off, they can take a real day off, without hitting at DH.

upnorthsox

I figured 30-40 in the field and 10 games off for the same reasons. And yes it is what it is.

ForsterFTOG

I’d rather see a competent 4th outfielder play 50-60 games and let Eloy DH.

BenwithVen

yeah, it’s too bad we don’t have one.

King Joffrey

I think it’s important to remember that if you always assume the White Sox are doing the wrong thing, you’re only going to be right 98% of the time.

a-t

apparently Clevinger is under investigation for domestic violence, with a side of child abuse. just charming stuff. Sox claim they weren’t aware of this until after signing him…

dwjm3

The strategy of just trying to be adequate is going swimmingly already.

We might be down a fifth starter, a closer, while counting on prospects at two key positions. We keep imploring them to keep adding talent, and they refuse only to have egg on their face.

knoxfire30

wow, given wow dumb they were with the larussa dui stuff you would think they would have a better handle on who they are bringing in and back ground checks and what not… awful stuff

steelydan52

Hell, we’re not even to spring training yet and the poop is hitting the fan.

knoxfire30

And im not buying the sox didnt know act, apparently the MLB had reports from this past summer of multiple incidents ….. this organization is a joke

a-t

i think they probably did not know, bc they’re not historically associated with DV guys, but that they should have known and didn’t do due diligence bc they’re incompetent

knoxfire30

the at best we are incompetent act…. mercy

they get a lot less leeway with the larussa dui stuff and bringing boston back to coach for no real reason

bobsquad

I wonder if the investigation pertains to a new incident. If not, the MLB seems slow to act. Is anyone familiar with what is made aware to teams under the Joint Policy?

a-t

the victim said she had been in contact with MLB’s investigation dept since this summer re incidents up to that time, so yeah, they’re not moving particularly fast.

Joint Policy: A. Process. “The procedures set forth in this Policy shall be triggered when the Commissioner’s Office provides the Players Association with written notification that it is investigating an allegation that a Player has engaged in a Covered Act (“Notification”). Unless otherwise expressly stated, the Basic Agreement remains in effect and its relevant provisions apply under this Policy

Possible that Clevinger’s/MLBPA’s lawyers managed to delay the official start of the investigation or at least keep it quiet for a time; if so, this would clearly explain why Clevinger was so eager to sign quite early in the offseason, before all this came out.

steelydan52

I just read that from the Athletic. If MLB has that info how could they NOT let teams know that there’s an investigation? This just reeks all the way around. Wow.

GrinnellSteve

***the poop is hitting the fans

corrected

WestEddy

This is just sickening. The one thing the White Sox have generally been on the good side of the ledger with – what an offseason from hell.

Foulkelore

Unreal, they had myriad options on who to sign for a 1 year 5th starter, and of course, they sign this guy. I just really hope they didn’t know (carless/ignorant) vs. knowing and not caring (evil).

Bonus Baby

Admittedly, I’m reading about this here for the first time, so I don’t know the details at all. But if they knew, it wouldn’t just be “evil,” it would be monumentally stupid even for evil people. Why would you want to spend $12M on a guy who is both coming of TJ surgery and plenty likely to be suspended for much of the season from the sound of it?

Last edited 1 year ago by Bonus Baby
LamarHoyt_oncrack

It makes no sense that they knew, I will give you that. I mean I hate the usual suspects, but even they would have nothing to gain by throwing away $12M and creating a PR nightmare. Agreed.

They are still evil, but did not know about this, obviously. I hate to say it, but I have not done your betting idea on the Sox to not win the Central. Fanduel has not updated odds, and is close to free money if Clevinger is basically gone. For a $100 bet, putting like 60 on the Guards at +160 and 40 on Twins at +250 works out to winning $56 if the Guards win or $40 if the Twins win. A 56 or 40 percent return in a few months. A host of injuries to the Twins or Guardians, or other unforseen things are possible. But all else equal, it would take an awful lot of best case scenarios simultaneously for the Sox to win it if they are not getting what everybody assumed they would from a rejuvenated/Katz infused Clevinger. Who the hell replaces him? Seems a super high probability bet, now.

Bonus Baby

Anybody know if this kind of thing is grounds for voiding the contract? The alleged conduct would have been pre-contract AFAIK.

Maybe they could do that and throw money at Michael Wacha or something.

steelydan52

I have to believe that if the Sox didn’t know, and I don’t feel they did, then they can void this contract. This just makes no sense to me.
Hahn just went from dumpster diving to dumpster fires.

a-t

It’s very hard to void contracts for DV. Historically, the only success teams have had voiding contracts is when the player suffers injuries in the DV incident; K-Rod lost a chunk of his contract bc he broke his hand punching his father-in-law, for instance. This case where it had already happened and the investigation started but apparently secretly, is certainly unusual. But unless they had a clause Clevinger signed that could be used, they might be stuck. It’s maybe possible to file a grievance with the league for something? The league knew and apparently didn’t tell teams, besides probably the Padres. Why the investigation was this delayed in announcement is a good question.

There are general character etc clauses in the universal contract, but that’s not collectively bargained, so MLBPA considers them unenforceable. Obviously the Dodgers would have loved to have Bauer’s contract voided. A criminal conviction could be grounds for voiding, but that’s not a possible outcome here, the investigation is only via MLB, not the legal system.

Last edited 1 year ago by a-t
Augusto Barojas

He was apparently good friends with Bauer. I recall reading something about Clevinger being one of the people who testified during Bauer’s investigation. It sounded like he dated or knew one of the women involved because he hung around with Bauer? It didn’t sound like he was involved or had done anything wrong, but I do recall reading something about him and Bauer (in an article about Bauer), before the Sox got him.

I hope Davis Martin is really, really good. He can pick up all of Clevinger’s starts, and 1/3 of Kopech’s as well. All they need is for him to be like a mlb number 3 level starter for 40-50 starts.

a-t

There were allegations of emotional/financial abuse against Clevinger when he was in Cleveland, I think from a different woman, but not physical, and social media posts not official investigation. So he was known to be a prick before this, which was my main complaint about the signing