When his last two rebuilds were in progress and the to-do list lacked immediate action items, Rick Hahn’s ability to say nothing in 30-second chunks helped pass the time.
At a time where his second attempt at rebuilding has crested and receded, empty answers echo endlessly, because nothing is the least useful thing to hear after a season where everything went wrong.
Alas, saying something does not come naturally to him. The guy who used parades as his primary unit of success painted a picture of a franchise without any real initiative.
“A year ago, we’re coming off a division championship, we’re wildly prognosticated to win the division going away,” Hahn said as the sun was setting on the Grandchester Grand Hyatt Hotel on Monday. “So, a blockbuster or roster-shaking move was probably a little less on the agenda. This year, we have to be open-minded given the way we performed in ’22. Does it mean that’s what’s going to happen? Not necessarily, but we at least have to be open-minded to something like that.”
And the guy who said a week ago that “the message that this is an organization that is a potential destination for premium players is an important one” now says they’re waiting for the premium players to sign elsewhere.
“We are not driving that bus,” White Sox general manager Rick Hahn said. “In terms of the mega-free-agent deal, I think some of those are probably going to have to come together in the coming days to lead to a little more activity in the other markets. ”
Which is just about what he said during the 2017 winter meetings, when the White Sox were in full scrap-seeking mode.
For now, another wave of short-term, likely one-year signings to eat innings looks to be their speed, and Hahn is hoping those are the type of guys who will be great values after the dust settles from larger signings.
“We’re going to have to see how the markets unfold over the coming weeks and perhaps months and be opportunistic to fill those needs as the opportunities arise,” Hahn said. “It might take until after the first of the year until we truly have a sense of what’s available. I think we signed Derek [Holland] right before Christmas, we signed [Anthony] Swarzak in late January or something like that, so those might take some time.”
Perhaps this is the winter where Hahn successfully augments the roster by converting on actually exciting targets, but the White Sox’s track record suggests that whatever eggs they’re not putting in Pedro Grifol’s basket are being dispersed to other non-playing personnel, be it new conditioning lead Geoff Head or field coordinator/baseball handyman Mike Tosar.
In the meantime, you’ll have to settle for low-level Liam Hendriks rumors, which sound more like other teams asking than the White Sox shopping.
We have to be open-minded to improving our ballclub.
Wow.
Stunning isn’t it.
Bold leadership requires bold solutions.
You can feel the passion when Hahn speaks.
Maybe Rick Hahn subscribes to Tony Robbins “No expectations, no disappointments” mantra.
https://www.tonyrobbins.com/mental-health/no-expectations-no-disappointment/
2. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY
I think Rick can’t get past number 2.
Amid the pathetic excuse-making and word-salad nothingness Hahn serves up in place of actual accountability or action, a bizarre twist is his repeated bragging about writers’ rosy 2022 predictions, as if that has any actual meaning at all. He’s done it multiple times now. It’s completely irrelevant, and a strange place to hang his hat.
Fegan’s article at the Athletic today paints a truly pathetic and embarrassing of a picture of this org. This team never spent any real money and yet are out of payroll space. They massively underachieved last year. They let their best and most popular player walk away. They’re literally admitting to letting the big boys, the real teams, do their important business first this offseason before assessing what scraps are left afterward. As laughable as the “seat at the table” quote was, it seems they don’t even have that lowly expectation anymore.
They have tepid at best fan interest, and yet seemingly intend to do nothing to change the trajectory of the team or excite their fans. Sometimes I dislike how one-note and reductionist fan reaction is in the comments section here, but then the org deserves every bit of it. Utterly disgusting.
Reading this really drives home that this White Sox “window of contention” is over. The Sox are signing Clevinger and starting Colas in RF. Maybe they sign Gallo or Adam Frazier. You can compare that to what actual contenders are doing. All appearances are that the Sox are giving up but don’t want to admit they are giving up.
The Sox lost their best offensive player from last year and their second best starting pitcher and are not attempting to replace that production. They aren’t going to throw money at fixing the team and they have the worst farm system in baseball.
I’d have more respect for the Sox if they committed to another rebuild and traded literally everyone of value on the roster. That’s actually their best choice given their constraints. And I would find that approach less grating than Hahn pretending like the Sox are an actual major league baseball organization.
One quibble: they no longer have the worst farm system in the league
True…MLB has them at 26 out of 30…so “one of the worst” and certainly not at a level where they can generate a playoff contender if they aren’t willing to buy players.
We’re not done shopping for our BP, or our 4th OF.
BP looks pretty finished to me aside from maybe a dedicated long reliever/swingman to replace Velasquez, and the team has an internal option in Lambert (depending on how Grifol will use him). I would imagine even if Hendriks is dealt the team expects Crochet to occupy that spot on the 26 man roster for the bulk of the season.
Crochet will not be available for most of the season, more than half at least and then limited.
I think you missed my sarcasm…or maybe it is irony as I could certainly see Hahn using our little bit of prospect capital to plug a BP hole that doesn’t exist.
I can’t speak for all of his critics, but Hahn would make a believer out if me if he makes a splash for a top FA like Taylor Rogers or Kenley Jansen.
I understand the reasoning for suggesting another rebuild, but the problem is that unless they get rid of Hahn, he would be in charge of the rebuild. His track record is not ideal with rebuilds.
For contrast read what Dumbrowski said about stars on MLB. Com
Not one fan anywhere would of stuck around had the sox been honest with them and told them the truth that the best it was gonna get after stockpiling hundreds of millions of dollars and intentionally losing and trading away star talent for cheap prospects was to go out and sign the likes of Grandal, Hendrix, and Kuechel while watching stars like Rodon and Abreu walk. If that was always gonna be the peak or damn close to it of the rebuild, no one would of stuck around. The fanbase was flat lied too and gas lit the entire way. PATHETIC doesn’t begin to describe it. Even if Robert, Eloy, Moncada lived up to the hype the entire idea of restacking the deck was to go out and spend BIG on tier 1 free agents to create a juggernaut and supplement roster holes. Instead we scrapped a front line starter, a middle of the order hitter, out of our 3 biggest FA signings only 1 has value and 1 has already been cut, and their is 0 help on the way. What an absolute joke, and the clowns that haven’t been able to field a playoff winner for going on a decade are still locked into their jobs.
It’s honestly malevolent
“gaslit” is the perfect word describe the orgs relationship to its fanbase. If I had a ticket package, I would cancel it after reading Fegan’s article this morning (if not sooner). I guess not renewing MLBtv is going to have to do.
Are they telling us this in 2019? Because I’m pretty sure a lot of fans would have been okay with that at the time. Keuchel wasn’t toast, Grandal was one of the best catchers in the game, Rodon managed to throw all of 35 innings, and Abreu was an aging slugger that involved a lot of conversations about whether he was toast.
Keuchel was pretty toasted from day one, tbh. He made 11 good starts in 2020, but otherwise he was a #4/#5 (or worse) since his last year in Houston.
I loved the Grandal deal, but that’s like the 3rd or 4th best dude they should have signed.
Yeah – Grandal was a fine signing. There’s no way that should have been the biggest signing during the “window of contention” but it was.
I’m not saying we would have been content with nothing else happening outside of those moves but hindsight is a helluva drug.
Grandal was a nice get, everyone wanted him, filled a variety of needs Lefty, obp, power etc but that was never suppose to be anything close to the peak. Kuechel was a total after thought once they lost out on Wheeler, that alone is a massive difference in the fate of the sox
We were promised the cub plan you know heyward, lester, darvish level signings and certainly not letting guys walk
The sox have let a number 1 level starter walk last off season and this season their 2nd best starter statistically and their best hitter…. UNHEARD OF!
How do they think they are gonna compete with that non sense.
I honestly don’t remember any huge single-contract signings promised. Maybe I’m misremembering and someone can show me a link, but I only remember promises like “the money will be spent” without any specifics on how. Nor do I think that the whole purpose of the restacking was to spend big on Tier 1 free agents.
I always thought the main purpose of the rebuild was to: (1) trade away valuable assets (since the team was mired in mediocrity) so that you add a bunch of big-time prospects to your farm system; (2) while those guys are getting ready to come up to the big leagues, you’d figure to also be least an average team at drafting and developing additional prospects — particularly with the very high draft picks you’d be making; (3) when a critical mass of all those prospects came up, you’d finish off the team by “spending the money” in whatever way helped put together the best team, and go win.
As far as I can tell, each step of the plan was executed, including “spending the money.” But, to me, if you’re mapping out why the team was so bad last year, you have to list off a lot of failures in execution and decision-making before you ever get to “didn’t sign a Tier 1 free agent:”
1. Terrible domestic drafting and development: Almost all their key players were either already on the team when the rebuild started (Anderson), acquired via trade (Eloy, Cease, and on and on), or an international signing (Robert). Unless I’m forgetting someone, Vaughn is the best player they drafted and developed in this time frame — and that pick also ended up being executed terribly (see below).
2. TLR: Maybe he deserves to be #1, but I don’t think I need to rehash how bad that choice was.
3. Injuries: I suppose somebody could convince me that they just had a little bit more bad luck than a typical team, but it certainly seems to me like there was something deeply, deeply defective with training staff.
4. Bad decisions in roster construction. Vaughn gets drafted in 2016, and Hahn plans to let Abreu walk in 2019. Reinsdorf steps in and overrules him on Abreu. OK. I’d prefer Reinsdorf just let his GM build a team, but Hahn now has to trade Vaughn. I know, hindsight is 20-20, and folks thought that Eloy could legit play the outfield, and so on and so on. But there were also Sheets and Burger (more 1B/DH types). The roster train wreck was easily foreseeable when Abreu signed for 3 years in 2019. Even if you think you’re not getting equal value back, trade Vaughn. You have to realize that your prospects are dangerously limited in athleticism and defensive skills. This is all on Hahn to me.
5. Bad decisions in “spending the money.” Insert your own bad decision(s) here, we all can come up with them. The actual “spending the money” part I’m not too critical of. Maybe folks think that “spending the money” always involved an implicit promise to be have at least one of the top 4-5 payrolls in the league. As a Sox fan, I didn’t. Getting spending up to 7th in the league last year at least shows some effort to complete the team with signings and win now. And if you had told me during the rebound that they’d spend to that level during the contention window, I expect I would say, “I’ll take it.”
6. It’s only here that I’d get, potentially, to “failure to sign a Tier 1 free agent.” If they had done a half-decent job with the above 5 steps, they should really have been much more competitive in 2021 and 2022 already. Maybe in this alternate history it turns out that they’ve only got a very few roster spots to fill with free agents, so “spending the money” well has pretty much got to mean signing a superstar at some point. Maybe they instead lock up important players on long contracts, and make smart choices in spending on merely average MLB players to plug roster holes. Either way might be the better way to spend whatever money there is, depending on how the roster unfolds and players develop.
This is all about the past so far, but with respect to now and the near-term future, I still don’t see why there’s such a huge focus on whether they sign someone for one big contract ($300 million range) or not.
Given the major roster holes and minor roster holes on the current team, if JR let the team payroll go up another $20M this year, to the $210-215M range, I think I’d still be happier if they spent the money on legit MLB starter-level talent to fill all roster holes, and then make sure to add some quality depth (like at C or a 4th outfielder) to protect against injury or under-performance.
If anyone thinks Trea Turner or Aaron Judge will just by themselves make this team a WS contender, it’s not me. Most of the guys currently here that performed at above-average or all-star level in 2021 have to have good, healthy years if the Sox are going to have any chance, no matter what single big-name free agent they sign. And if those guys come close to their current potential (e.g., Robert, Eloy), the Sox will be very good. It’s possible that Trea Turner or Aaron judge would be the 1 player that put the Sox over the top, but the easiest and most obvious way to help the team now is to make sure you’re not running replacement level players (or worse) out there to play a lot of games.
Yeah, you can win without a player with a $200-300M contract on your team. But you can’t waste $15-20M every year on replacement level players, which is what Hahn has done. The one biggest mistake they made in the last 5 years was passing on Bryce Harper. He signed for $23M per year and checked every box they needed to be filled. Just increased ticket sales would have paid for half his contract. To not go hard for him when he fell into their laps is inexcusable.
It’s hard to win without a big contract on the books because no having one locks you out of having most elite players. This is the problem with the Sox self-imposed constraints of no large long term contracts. They are willing to spend to a degree but only on short term deals…often 1 year deals hoping for a bounce back. Most of the players willing to take such deals are bad bets, by definition, to perform well. I’m not defending Hahn, but the Sox financial philosophy locks them into a specific player pool.
I mean, we have 3 starting pitchers on our roster capable of 5+ WAR seasons, an All Star SS, a top closer, and arguably a top 15 hitter in the league (with restrictions) on our roster right now without the hindrance of a big contract on the books. It’s not like they are all on pre-arb deals either. The problems are more so health, motivation, and the surrounding pieces (boy this sounds familiar) and there’s an argument to be made that we have a solution to the motivation issue and health is always fluky so that just leaves the surrounding pieces and you don’t necessarily need a big contract there but that’s no reason not to actually try.
Just wait, Anderson will hear what the top free agent shortstops made this year on contracts.
So another year of lethargic moping? Let’s end it now then.
That’s it in a nutshell. Hahn is priced out of every good/solid to elite player, and forced to sign players who are bad bets. The Sox are left hoping and needing several things that are not great bets to go right at once. Anything is possible, it’s just exceedingly unlikely, and the results keep bearing that out.
We’re left hoping they can win with a roster that sans Rodon and Abreu is clearly worse than 2 or 3 years ago, with the same or even bigger holes now. Good luck with all that.
I think Hahn has been wrong an alarmingly high percentage of the time but we as a commentariat have certainly had our share of misjudgements as well. I don’t think Hahn’s track record is much worse than the Sox Machine commentariat but the problem is that his track record is worse than that of a successful MLB GM who wins. Being right as often as us is a woefully low bar.
People who talk as if Hahn has never been right are being overly dramatic. Re-signing Abreu after the 2019 season; signing Rodón for the 2021 season; and keeping Cease while trading away Dunning prior to 2021 were all pretty unpopular in the comments of Sox Machine and were all good moves in hindsight.
The issue isn’t that Hahn is never right but that Hahn hasn’t been right often enough. MLB GM is a hard job but he’s had more than enough chances to show he’s one of the very small number of people who can be right often enough to produce contending teams in MLB. Let’s try someone else.
The only thing is it’s not just Hahn, the rot goes to the top and needs some total overhauling. Unfortunately we can see with the Bulls that it doesn’t always translate to playoff wins but at least gets them up to competent.
The question is why are any of us are sticking around now. Not much to see here, really. This has turned into one of the most boring teams I could have imagined. The end result of the “rebuild” has turned out to be basically like that televised opening of Al Capone’s vault.
Who here thinks Geraldo would be a better GM than Rick?
I know why I’m sticking around. I still like the players on this team. I’m not sure why you are still here since there are no redeeming qualities to this team based on your comment history.
It also would improve the comments generally
I’m sticking around. If I give up on the Sox then I’ll give up on baseball altogether. I wouldn’t follow another team so this is what I get and that gives me the right to complain.
I can’t imagine my life without baseball and even though I have my doubts I will still hope Hahn does what he’s supposed to do, what he gets paid very well to do, and the Sox are back in the thick of a divisional race next season.
You have just described my position toward the White Sox as well. Baseball is far and away my favored major sport. Frustrated, yes. But ever hopeful. A couple of well-executed trades and we are back into the hunt.
I guess I wished we had a driver’s seat than a seat at the table?
I love that we don’t even sell hope.
I L O A T H E Rick Hahn.
I’d take a passenger seat or being thrown in the trunk at this point. Instead, the White Sox have fallen out of the car, and aren’t even bothering to chase after it.
The subtext from Hahn here boils down to “Don’t get excited, fuckwads.”
It would honestly be better if he just said that part out loud.
At least KW liked loud moves, even if the hit rate was like 30%.
Absolutely – Hahn just leaves me begging for him to say something real. I spend enough time in corporate meetings that I get plenty of bullshit platitudes in day-to-day life. I don’t need it from my sports team, too.
What I wouldn’t give for him to get the “Liar, Liar” treatment for a day and have to actually tell us the straight truth about anything….
Reporter: “Are you looking to make any changes to the roster this offseason, Rick?”
Hahn: “Well, Jerry’s still depressed about Drunkle Tony pooping the bed (hopefully just metaphorically) and said I can’t spend anymore money. We’re just going to try to catch lightning in a bottle and pretend the rebuild was completed.”
Reporter: “What are the chances we’ll see the Sox sign a top- or mid-tier free agent?”
Hahn: “Not a snowball’s chance in hell. Unless they’re willing to sign for waaaaaaay less than they can get elsewhere. lololololol”
Reporter: “Who’s going to play right field this year?”
Hahn: “We’re just going to hope Colas can make the jump from AA to the bigs. He’s affordable and already in the org. That’s how we decide who should start on this serious ball club. If not him, it’s going to be Leury-mania running wild out there!”
Reporter: “Can this team really make a run at a World Series as currently constructed?”
Hahn: “For sure…if every other team contracts ass-rabies and forfeits all their games! No more questions – just be sure to go buy your tickets, but don’t get too excited, fuckwads.”
“Hahn: “Well, Jerry’s still depressed about Drunkle Tony pooping the bed (hopefully just metaphorically) and said I can’t spend anymore money. We’re just going to try to catch lightning in a bottle and pretend the rebuild was completed.””
My guess is it would be closer to:
Hahn: “Well, my boss says I can’t paper over my fuckups with his checkbook, so since fuckups roll downhill I guess that means you all are fucked.”
Maybe I’m in the minority, but truly dont trust this Org to make splash deals and it work out for the Sox, usually they trade players who end up being good elsewhere and ironically turn out to be the missing piece on flawed White Sox rosters because the “splash” acquisition turns out to be a dud. Players get worse here, and the development lacks severely. They put themselves in a corner and dont know how to fix it is what this feels like. Maybe the worst place for a franchise, but at least its entertaining to watch millionaires trip over themselves I guess? Not like they care what fans think anyways
Well, the Sox “splash” deals typically have lowered expectations built in. The Sox don’t even target elite players because they know they aren’t in that league.
As an example, the Sox are not in on Bryan Reynolds. Instead they are targeting Kepler as an “upside play”. Just like everyone else, they have stats showing that Kepler may benefit from lack of a shift and that his advanced stats outplay his actual production. And so the chances are the Sox will overpay for that imagined version of Kepler with one or two their real prospects and a decent bullpen arm, and they won’t get their projected projection which really would be expected because upside plays usually don’t work out.
I think mediocre results are built into the Sox organizational philosophy of aiming low.
They try to operate like a small-market team with their bargain shopping, but they forgot the part about having to be smarter than your competition to make that strategy work. Teams like the A’s and Rays invest in analytics, scouting and development to successfully find the needles in the haystack.
Hahn and the gang basically read the IMDB plot summary for the movie “Moneyball” and think that will somehow allow them to outsmart other orgs.
Kepler with no upside at all would be a huge OF upgrade over the replacement level (or worse) they’d have to throw out there right now. I look at his last 7 years and see that according to both bWAR and fWAR, he has been consistently at least average every single year.
I would absolutely take that right now, and honestly I’d much prefer it to some of the other names that have been floating around for an OF signing (Gallo, Conforto, etc.). Those guys do seem like upside plays to me.
He’d be an upgrade but he is not championship caliber. The guys coming on for 2B and the OF have to be at that level to make up for losing Jose and to mitigate against Grandal and Moncada below average play.
Frankly, right now I have virtually no opinion as to which left-handed hitting outfielder I would prefer, particularly when considering the difference in cost. They all have risks. Benintendi, Gallo, Brantley, Kepler——any of them would improve the roster right now and could provide value. The problem is each of them could crash and burn particularly in relation to cost. In the abstract, I guess my preference would be Benintendi, but I would not engage in an argument with anyone about that choice.
I’d be pounding the table for Gallo, all things considered, if his defense didn’t crater in 2022. He was good in RF in 2021, he hits dongs, and he walks. You can even make a case for his batting average to rebound with the changes to the shift although I’m not holding my breath on that count.
Letting the house burn to the ground because you didn’t like the job the chief did on the last fire is not how to run things.
I agree with you there, just dont trust itll work out, hope I’m wrong though!
I don’t think anybody trusts this organization. Suffice it to say you are not in the minority!
Why do so many hotels have that same style of ugly carpet?
It hides stains well.
“Hendriks has a limited no-trade clause that allows him to veto a deal to five clubs.”
I hope Liam exercises this. Pitching for one club is challenging enough, but FIVE?! Not even sure why that was needed in the contract…it’s just not realistic
We might guess that teams like the Dodgers would not be among those five.
Speaking of realistic, seemingly the obvious top trade for this SoX FO is Hendriks, because he’s desirable and costs the SoX $14.3M for 23, and $15M in 24 with team option, with a $15M buyout. IOW, his 24 salary is guaranteed, even if he doesn’t make one pitch for SoX in 24. (according to Spotrac).
Hendriks was on the IL about 2 weeks late June, with a “forearm strain”…said to SunTimes: “I’ve had a tear in my UCL since ’08. He’s 34 in a few months.
Kind of odd contract which SoX might want to escape?
He has real value in a trade, potentially bringing back at least one young, and maybe cheap, high quality position player, Possibly a second MLB average or better position player, and the usual suspects.
Well I suppose split time between the Cali teams could work. Maybe the NY/DC area could share him. That’s a tough travel schedule though
Hendriks is right to be concerned about the possibility of being required to pitch for several teams across multiple timelines. He’s playing 4D chess while the rest of us are watching Rick Hahn lose at checkers….
Much needed levity
Rick Hahn is as boring as the team that he’s allegedly the General Manager of.
For anyone who wants Bellinger, apparently he’s only looking for 1/$20M on a prove-it contract.
He apparently thinks he has a lot to prove.
I wonder if the Sox can stomach that level of commitment lol.
We should offer him that money and tell him he’ll start every game in LF/CF at least until the AS break. There’s no way he’s worse than whatever else they’re cooking up.
The implication that division favorites don’t make blockbuster moves, while most of the top free agents sign huge deals with playoff teams and this very franchise traded for Thome after winning the world series, is quite funny.
I hear one of the WS teams might have signed someone of interest…
Reports now that Padres made Turner the biggest offer. It was more than the $341M that Lindor got. So they were willing to have 3 separate $300M+ contracts on their books simultaneously. Plus whatever they are probably trying to offer Soto to stick around.
It’s actually unfathomable to me what it would be like being a fan of a team like that.
Even teams like the Brewers and Tigers have contracts that dwarf anything the Sox have done.
Right or wrong, I think Hahn and Co are using the 2011-15 Royals as their model. Their re-build looked like a total failure after the 2013 season before catching lightning. I don’t personally think they are the same situations, the Royals had more depth and better key trades/FA pickups. The whole was definitely bigger than the sum of its parts, and they played over their ski’s for two years, but their re-build was a success with 2 WS appearances and one win.
I think the Sox(Hahn) are using it as a model to say give their talent time to mature. 2023 will really be year 4 of the re-build. I think JR is a really good business man first, horrible owner for fans, but he is also loyal to a fault to allow his employees more than ample time to prove success/failure. I really believe Hahn’s job is on the line in the first 81 games in 2023.
I also think JR gave Hahn limited resources for 2023 If his sales pitch is his team just needs time to mature, then your team is on the field and that’s all you get. Unlike the Bears where they put the GM on the hot seat and he proceeds to trade three drafts away in desperation before he gets fire, JR is hand-cuffing Hahn intentionally to make sure the next guy has money and a farm system left.
I don’t think JR is stupid, so I need rationalization for all the stupid things they are doing over the last 12 months.
I think my #1 criticism and #1 reason why the Sox org. is typically poor from top to bottom is the fact that JR is “loyal to a fault.” I get the idea of having loyalty to people, but if you’re the owner of a major league team, I would hope that “loyalty” doesn’t mean that you almost always look for someone from within the “family” when you need to fill a position.
It’s not just the length of time that JR allows failure to go on, it’s the entire model of hiring. The first thought should be, but has historically not been: “Who are the guys out there, from any background or association with any team, who look like they would be best at the job?” Pedro Grifol was a good hire for this reason alone to me, and I’m really hopeful that some new voices and new staff/coaches/trainers will help. Maybe they don’t, but fishing outside of the “White Sox” pool for talent has been a desperate need now for a long time.
The Royals comparison is interesting, and it could explain why Hahn is seemingly so hell-bent on focusing on the bullpen. One small quibble though, prior to the 2013 season the Royals traded a top-10 prospect for Shields and went from 72-90 to 86-76 and I think even in 2013 they still had a couple of guys like Yordano Ventura who were developing. You also had big steps forward by guys like Salvador Perez, Alex Gordon and Eric Hosmer in 2013, so I think there was a lot of cause for optimism for Royal fans heading into 2014.
The Sox have to replace Abreu’s WAR and to that and mitigate against a below average Grandal (who better learn how to throw out baserunners because they are going to run at will after two pick off throws under the new rules) and Moncada they have to sign 2 WAR guys for the OF and 2B to be competitive in the Central. And this will not be enough to beat Texas or Houston, assuming Judge goes to SF.
How’s this for managed expectations? “We believe with some key additions this winter, we can field a .500 team that is more entertaining than last year’s version”.
The sad part of this is that all the Sox would have to do to be considered WS contenders is sign Jean Segura and Michael Conforto to short term contracts.
That, along with health and a competent coaching staff and good preparation will do it. They don’t need to spend much more money.
Probably other, but similar, ways they could get to the same result (like a trade for Gleyber Torres instead of Segura), but I totally agree with your point.
The Guardians just signed Bell. Getting both Conforto/Segura probably wouldn’t even give the Sox even odds to win the division and get a playoff spot. It would not make them WS contenders. They are likely to get neither.
Current WS betting odds — for people putting actual money on the table — have the Sox tied (with the Brewers and the Rays) for 11th in the league. They have Cleveland tied for 15th (with the Orioles).
https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-betting-odds-los-angeles-dodgers-open-as-world-series-favorite-for-2023-201042392.html
That article was posted prior to the Sox losing Abreu and the Guardians getting Bell, by the way. Give me a way to bet on the Guardians to win the central in 2023 with the Sox as favorites, I’ll take that bet in a heartbeat. Unless the Sox… gasp…actually do something.
I’ll bet those odds change to put the Sox behind Cleveland prior to opening day. If not, it’s a great bet. Oddsmakers don’t always prove to be all that smart anyway, certainly did not last year when it came to the AL central.
But feel free to put your money on the Sox and get back to me in 10 months, and let me know how that worked out for you.
My bad, I didn’t notice the date. This one is at least updated as of yesterday afternoon:
https://www.covers.com/mlb/world-series/odds
Spoiler: White Sox now in sole possession of 11th place, and Cleveland dropped to 16th.
If I were one of the Sox skeptics here — and really, I suggest they all consider it strongly — I might put money on Cleveland to win the AL Central. Sounds like an easy win. And the time to make the bet is now, of course. People out there betting while thinking the Sox must be going to make meaningful improvements are missing the boat. Since y’all know better, the time to lock in the best odds is now.
There has got to be a way to make that bet, but it didn’t immediately come up for me, and I’m not interested enough to keep digging for it.
As for me, I wasn’t planning on betting on anyone for the WS. 5.5 to 1 odds for even the favorite don’t seem so great to me, but to each their own.
I have two betting site accounts, right now neither has WS nor division odds. They usually don’t until spring training after the FA market is sorted out. I doubt it is possible to bet on division winners anywhere, right now.
I wouldn’t bet on the Guardians to win anything other than the AL Central. Like the Sox, the Guardians would not do well if they were in another division. Guardians are not a slam dunk, but they won by 11 games and should be the favorite, one would think. If the Guardians are not the favorite even after adding Bell, while the Sox lose Abreu (so far having done nothing else to improve), then the Guardians seem a great bet as underdogs. If they are moderate to heavy favorites as they might be in a few months, then probably not worth it. I cannot imagine that they will be underdogs unless the Sox offseason takes a real unexpected upturn, which we can only hope might be possible in an alternate universe!
Fair enough. I expect if the Sox add something like Conforto and Segura (original post in the thread), the Sox will be favorites when the season starts. Neither player would really be my first choice, though. For about the same price and/or trade capital I expect they could get Benintendi (not as much upside as Conforto, but I’m just looking for a surer bet to be average out there right now), and there has to be a way to get a decent starting LH2B somewhere. Sosa and Gonzalez are both RH, and Leury not only doesn’t belong on the team, but also hits worse against RH pitching anyway. Got to be a way to get someone to take advantage of RHP.
Conforto and Segura sounds an awful lot like Pollock and Harrison.
Conforto was better from 2017-2021 — 16.3 fWAR and 12.9 bWAR. Pollock only had 12.9 fWAR and 9.2 bWAR during the same period. Plus Conforto is LH. I left out 2022 because Conforto missed the year, and the Sox were signing Pollock based on his pre-2022 history. Coming off the injury is scary, and he’s a little too boom and busty for me, but he’s definitely been better than Pollock over the short-medium past.
Making the same kind of comparison, Segura completely outclasses Harrison. In the 5 years prior to the Sox signing him, Harrison had 4.6 fWAR and 2.1 bWAR. In the 5 years prior to now, Segura had 11.8 fWAR and 12.1 bWAR. No contest.
I think Segura is a bit better than Harrison but I agree with the sentiment. Segura had a .670 OPS vs righties last year which isn’t going to help that issue much. Conforto has upside but is an injury risk, and yet another guy whose last good season was at least 3 years ago. The Sox need to set their sights higher than those two if they are serious about getting better.
Nimmo just seems like the ideal guy for the Sox to break their self created free agent curse. Projected at $110/5 yrs at 22M, totally affordable with the money coming off the payroll the next two winters. They don’t need to wait for that payroll to actually come off the books, they can anticipate it like teams not run by morons and misers would do! That’s the kind of player they should target, someone good as recently as 2022 to help them through a sustained window, not Conforto or the other usual OF suspects.
I don’t think anybody will be “finding Nimmo” on the Sox roster anytime soon.
Maybe even worse!
BetMGM has odds for the World Series and the AL Pennant. Both have the White Sox favored over the Guardians and it’s not all that close. Obviously that will change with them moving the lines and bets flowing in but Vegas tends to be smarter than fans. It’s almost like this team played below its talent level last year…
I never bet on sports but my father did (and lost a lot which led to a son who doesn’t bet on sports). I’m under the impression that odds/lines are set just to bring in about the same money on all sides and then the house makes money on the juice. If that’s the case, couldn’t the Sox being favored over the Guardians just be a matter more fans/better perception not BetMGM thinking the Sox are actually more likely to win?
Again, as a non-sports-bettor, I may completely misunderstand this.
Sometimes it is better to just not say anything. But being kicked to the curb might be a wakeup call to some fans. I will always be a WSox fan but it is past time to limit the amount of emotional energy I allow this franchise to suck out of me.
It’s also dangerous to talk a lot because as Jim just showed us, it’s clear that Hahn will just say the same vague BS over and over regardless of the situation.
Valezquez gone to Pittsburgh; wonder what bad pitcher Hahn has up his sleeve to replace him.
Setting the bar low is about the only thing this organization excels at.
Cleveland signed josh bell 2 for 33, not bad for them, they are like 1 more bat from locking the division up
The Sox are literally pathetic. Way bigger market than both Cleveland and the Twin Cities, yet those teams are making significant signings while Jerry/Rick/KW and the rest of the candy ass brigade sits around doing nothing.
Career OPS over .800, WAR over 3 the past two years. Solid get for them. I wouldn’t say they’ve locked up the division, but they were the favorites before today and now even more so, without a doubt.
I don’t think there is any danger of season tickets selling out right away for the Sox. I can’t think of a reason to pay money for any kind of ticket to watch this team, personally.
To be fair, I said they are like one more bat away….
youngest team in the mlb, still have something like 6 or 7 top 100 prospects and not a lot of payroll committed…..
imagine if they make a strong enough offer for murphy and go from a bad catching situation to one of the best… that uptick would be enough to make them a pretty decent favorite maybe almost prohibitive in the division
Agree with all your points. It’s obvious that the Sox can’t do nothing and still make the playoffs even if a pathetic division. Now Cleveland isn’t so pathetic, and the Sox are becoming closer to pathetic themselves by getting worse instead of better.
Guards add Bell, Sox lose Abreu. Unless Hahn has something wildly unpredictable up his sleeve, this season projects to be a yawner.
Nah. If the Sox find a 2 WAR player for LF and 2B, they are probably the favorites, or close. That’s a big “if,” of course. And the smart money is still on Cleveland. But they are a long way from “locking the division up.”
They would look pretty good with Bellinger. He could split time with Straw and Gonzalez in CF and RF and give them the thump they need in the OF.
It would certainly piss me off and several on this site I’m sure especially if we stand pat with AA callups.
Nice upgrade from the sub .600 ops they got from the DH spot last year.
Why oh why am I a fan of this team? Cleveland is going to spend more money than the Sox this winter. If there is a worse organization in all of sports than the Rick/Kenny/Jerry-led White Sox, I’d like to see it. I know Colorado is dysfunctional, but they at least spend money on big free agents. The Sox are the only big market team to literally refuse to spend on big free agents. I am so sick of Hahn’s blathering. And then they cancel Soxfest so they don’t have to face the fans. What a bunch of cheap, sorry-ass cowards.
This ownership doesn’t give a F about the entire fanbase, they have made that clear. I may be gone from being a fan of this team at all, it seems pointless until there is an ownership change. It’s not worth anybody’s money, or time for that matter.
Bears might be a lot better in a year or two with a top 3 pick possibly and some salary cap room. There are a lot more reasons to like the future of that team than this shitshow. Bears at least have some hope with Fields to build around. First real QB they have had in 3-4 decades!
Nah, that’s an exaggeration, this Cleveland team is good but it’s no juggernaut. Their roster full of contact hitters/plus defenders was basically perfect for the dead ball last year. If MLB tinkers with the ball again so a chunk of homers return, that should favor the Sox and relatively harm the Guardians.
They also outperformed their run differential by four wins and had pretty good injury luck, so I think they’ll add talent but regression elsewhere will have them end up at right around the same win total, much like what the Mariners did ‘21 to ‘22. A 90-95 win team is nothing to be overly intimidated by.
You forget that the Guardians farm is one of the best in baseball. They jumped one or two seasons ahead in their window of contention which I promise to you, it will be longer, fruitful, and cheaper than the pitiful 2 years window Hahn was able to put together. I have the Guardians as favorites to repeat at the moment.
The Sox will be the division favorites when the season starts, and I think they should be.
It does, however, really bother me that Cleveland is rebuilding so well with so little money so far. Fangraphs has Cleveland’s current projected 2023 payroll at $87M — and that includes the Bell signing. The Sox are right now about $179M, according to the same site.
And Cleveland seems like they’ve been doing this for a long time — churning out SP after SP like their farm system had some SP factory in it. The Sox? Not so much.
I honestly blame JR for all of this ultimately, even though I don’t think the main issue is money. All this “Sox family” and “loyalty” stuff has had them stuck for a very long time with poor hires up and down the organization. Of course, you blame the hires for being so bad as well (Hahn et al.), but ultimately it’s JR. It’s not like he’s a hands-off owner that trusts someone else to run the show.
I can’t stand Rick Hahn’s comments anymore. I just can’t accept how a such incompetent person that’s a salaried guy can keep his job for so long. Honestly, that’s an insult to other GMs, and aspiring GMs.
Think we need a “wildly prognosticated to win the division going away” championship banner.
The “Mission Accomplished” of the White Sox lol.
Excellent article Jim. You’ve made the blood pressure of every Sox fan jump off the charts by reminding us that we have a doofus as GM. Let’s not forget another Hahn gem, discussing the Abreu signing by Houston:
“Obviously, it’s always a difficult day from an emotional standpoint, or from a fan standpoint, when you see a franchise icon don another uniform,” Hahn said. “It’s a day that nobody ever envisions seeing but the realities of the business side sometimes dictate that such things happen.”
He’s acting like a certain former Bears HC who responded to the media’s questions about not using the running back by saying, “We’re going to have to see why we weren’t able to get the ball to him.”
The incompetents running these teams act like they are spectators.
Rangers sign their 2nd SP as Heaney get 2/$25 mil.
In the meantime, “we have to be open-minded given the way we performed in ’22.”
The Rangers only won 68 last year. But nice start to their offseason. They have a top 5 farm system as well, they should actually be good in a year or two. Both Heaney and DeGrom are injury risks though, I don’t know how great a bet DeGrom is to make 20 starts.
The Sox are not only falling farther behind good teams that are improving, but will enjoy less of an advantage over lesser teams that have gotten better as well. Texas will be harder to beat, no doubt. Meanwhile, Hahn appears to have no plan at all other than to be “open minded”.
They let go of their best position player because of their idiotic roster construction. The one player that played every day and produced over his whole career. Now he’s on the Astros. Hey, why not. They let go of their best pitcher the year before. And the best thing about it is they didn’t get back any compensation for either player. This is how you build a championship team? How do these people keep their jobs?
Cubs get Bellinger. Detail pending….
one-year, $17.5MM
Kenny advising Hahn to hold out for Andrew McCutchen and Robinson Cano.
They are grinders….
You joke, but the Sox could seriously wind up with McCutchen. Probably not Cano, although would not put it past the Sox braintrust!
I’ve thought McCutchen was coming for a while.
McCutchen is the perfect KW has been. Name ‘em…Alomar, Griffey, Ramirez, Andruw Jones (though he did hit 19-HRs in the 2011 season, which is more than any 2022 Sox), Orlando Hudson…have I missed any?
McCutchen would be perfect. Last season he had a WAR over 2 was 6 years ago. I mean what could more “Sox” than signing a player and hoping for production from 8-10 years ago? I have a feeling that’s probably what Hahn meant by “open minded”.
More details…$12MM salary and a $5.5MM buyout on a mutual option for 2024
That should’ve been doable, what’s their answer?
Bellinger would have been a really bad idea for them, especially for that price. If the Dodgers couldn’t fix whatever’s wrong with Bellinger— which to me seems like an injury to his throwing shoulder, which also neutered Kris Bryant— do you like the chance that the Sox could?
They want to avoid having— again— a black hole or two in the outfield. Bellinger is not exactly a good way to avoid that. The Cubs don’t care if he sucks, bc they aren’t spending money anywhere else and they don’t care about losing.
Yeah, the folks who thought Bellinger was an answer are living in 2019. I’d have liked it for under $10m as a 2nd OF signing to keep Colas in AAA longer. Not for this.
They are apparently spending more on SP as they sign Jameson Taillon to 4/$68. What’s next in their non-spending ways? Carlos Correa at SS? Trey Mancini at 1B/DH?
His recent struggles with the Dodgers were weird. In great lineup. He might find part of whatever he’s lost at some point, but I don’t think he will be great, personally.
Surprised the Cubs would sign anybody to a 1 year deal unless it’s with a mind that he might be valuable trade chip mid season if he does well. Cubs aren’t going anywhere in 2023 no matter who they sign, unless it’s Judge, Rodon, and Swanson.
If I’m Hahn, I’m talking to the Dodgers. They need starting pitching and a closer. With the way pitching prices are going, Giolito and Hendriks could pull a haul from LA, even if they are only for 1 and 2 years, respectively. I’m thinking they could get Michael Busch, Gavin Stone and James Outman for those two. They are the Dodgers’ 4th, 7th and 13th rated prospects. It would save the Sox $25M, and give them a little youth infusion with 3 MLB-ready prospects. A left-handed hitting 2B, a good defensive left-handed hitting outfielder and a 6th/7th starter. Then use the savings to add a starter like Taillon.
Love it! Could even leave enough payroll space for OF/C depth.
Only question to me is if the Dodgers willing to pull the trigger on it.
Getting the top closer available and a solid starter for $25M is a pretty good deal. They should be able to get something close to that.
Absolutely, the Dodgers are the team to talk to. Boggles the mind that they have a top 3 farm system without having had any first round picks in the top 20 in a decade. The Sox need some good/cheap young talent to help in a year or two, and to spend the serious money coming off the payroll the next two years in a wise way.
Yep, with $25M off for Gio and Liam, and Yaz, Lynn, Kelly and Diekman off next year, they could really retool without blowing it up.
I can’t wait for Moncada to come off the books after next year. I would love to see them get a top 3b prospect as part of the return. I don’t know if Dodgers would part with Vargas, he is considered best hitter in their system apparently.
I’m not ready to give up on Moncada yet. But it’s a must that he has to return to at least 2021 form.
I’m ready to give up on the idea that he can possibly wind up being worth anywhere close to the 40M they will be paying him the next two years.
If he can return to 2021 form, he’s actually worth more than $20 million per year.
I wish I believed that the the next two years will look like his 2021 production. He seems very unmotivated, as well as injury prone. Just has not often looked much like the guy coming off his 2019 season that we hoped would be a consistent stud for years. A shame.
I hope he hit bottom last season, at least. He is probably the position player with the most to prove.
I mean, 2022 was weirdly his best season since 2019 when it comes to limiting soft contact and barreling up the ball. I don’t know how he did but he managed to increase his medium contact fly balls which is somewhat impressive.
It’s probably pretty easy to be unmotivated if your manager is an old drunk who holds no one accountable. I’m hoping Grifol lights a fire under him. Because I think the talent is there.
Twins get lucky with the draft lottery and end up with the 5th pick. Doh!
Yeah, they moved from 13th to 5th. Sox stay at 15. Pirates get #1.
Tigers get 3rd pick with 6th worst record. Sox get 15th and don’t move up at all (of course). This team just has bad karma, or at least absence of any good karma.
It’s the karma they deserve.
Haniger to the Giants on a doable 3yr with opt out, I’m running out of OF options.
Phillies go ahead and sign Taijuan Walker to 4 years at $72M. Wow are they going bonkers with the FA spending. Going to give Cohen a run for his money. What a division with the Mets, Braves, and Phillies. Will be interesting battle to be sure.
Meanwhile the Sox make the Clevinger signing official and notarized. No Sox fans, it’s not just a dream!
And Judge goes down er back, not that I had any hope for us to be in on it.
9/$360 Mil.
I suspect Nimmo will move quick now.
No way the Yankees were going to let him go. That probably takes them out of the Rodon sweepstakes, though I’m sure they can afford him too.
Yep I’m expecting Rodon and Nimmo to sign today, maybe even Benintendi though I think there’s a good chance of him lingering if he’s shooting for the moon.
I wonder about the SS, if Correa is in no rush then that market may linger.
Supposedly turned down more from the Padres too. Reports say they offered $400 million over 10 years. Wow.
A trip down memory lane…and a reminder of how fast things can turn around when one is active and refuses to accept their situation.
Btw, the previous season the Sox finished in 2nd place 9 games back. Sound familiar?
December 9, 2004
The Chicago White Sox signed Jermaine Dye as a free agent.
The Chicago White Sox signed Dustin Hermanson as a free agent.
December 13, 2004
The Chicago White Sox traded Carlos Lee to the Milwaukee Brewers for a player to be named later, Scott Podsednik and Luis Vizcaino.
December 17, 2004
The Chicago White Sox selected Bobby Jenks off waivers from the Anaheim Angels.
January 3, 2005
The Chicago White Sox signed Orlando Hernandez as a free agent.
January 6, 2005
The Chicago White Sox signed A.J. Pierzynski as a free agent.
January 27, 2005
The Chicago White Sox signed Tadahito Iguchi as a free agent.
And just so no one forgets it came at a cost:
February 7, 2005
The Detroit Tigers signed Magglio Ordonez as a free agent.
Q signs with the Mets, 2/$26 mil.
This is the one I wanted to see to gauge the Clevinger signing price wise. I think we did ok.
idk, Quintana had the better year and didn’t look like his health had fallen apart by the end of it (Clevinger imploded by the end of the season). Also, Q is left-handed.
On the other hand, it is always a Sox player personnel victory to pay less for a worse player. Son put another one of those up on the board.
Q got 2 yrs for his upsides but they were very similar tier wise.
Reading the comments this morning I was reminded that with the changes to the shift and possible changes to the ball that there could be some mad regression for pitchers this year. This most definitely could be the year to stock up on hitters, too bad it seems we are taking a pass on them.
The White Sox may have done ok, but I pretty much hate watching Clevinger pitch, with his goofy pitching mannerisms. Q, on the other hand, was a delight.
I agree but I worry/worried that Q had his renaissance season last year and is heading toward that downward trajectory to the end. Clevinger hasn’t had his yet but then not all do, but at least its only 1 year.
Agreed. I view the functional AAV of a 2 year deal higher than a 1 year deal: if Clevinger stays healthy but fails as a rotation member, the Sox can surely find a deadline taker without having to eat 100% of the contract. If Q flops, the Mets are stuck.
And don’t we know it. Remember that feeling you had about Kuechel at the AS break in ’21? Yeah…
Kanley Jansen signs with the other Sox, 2/$32 mil.
Hendriks is looking like a good deal out there……..
Contreras to the Cards, there goes my Yas deal, remote though it may have been.
Looks like Bogaerts may go er stay today. Things could still break down but I’m guessing it may be done before dinner.
Things are really moving this year at the meetings, maybe its better that Hahn is sitting this one out. We wouldn’t want him to get hurt trying to stay up with the pace of the game.
“May I Go, Er, May I Stay” wasn’t nearly the follow-up hit The Clash expected it to be.
Even Rock Gods Age
In a bold and some say stunning move the White Sox announce that they will………………………………….not be trading Tim Anderson. It’s not known for sure what has brought this meteoric revelation but it has been suggested by experts that trading the AS SS might involve actual work and could also set unrealistic expectations in the Sox fanbase. Another close to the situation hinted that there was a worry that accountability may be required which the organization as a policy does not do.
As to other possible moves, the team is not anticipating any moves but will keep an open mind for what improvements could be made based on the performance of the team in 2022 and the fiscal concerns of the budget. As always, attendance is the deciding factor in all possible scenarios.
For someone who is so laser-focused on the trade market, Hahn’s maneuvering is odd. A month or so ago he announced Cease and Vaughn were untradeable, implying everyone else would be available. Now he adds Anderson.
Is there a strategy in play here? Part of me thought he was trying to drive up the price of Vaughn. That announcement came around the time of the Murphy rumors, leading me to speculate that he might be hoping Oakland might bite on a deal centered around Vaughn.
Or is his strategy less market-focused and more “time to shut up the Twitter cynics by announcing that our fan favorite SS will not be moving”?
Could also be just a mass message to all 29 other teams: Stop calling us about Anderson. I have no idea if teams are actually calling about him, but his name keeps coming up among other teams’ twitter followers: some fan of the Marlins wants Anderson, fans of the Rangers want Anderson etc. I haven’t seen that much with other Sox players.
Though it now occurs to me that I have seen it a couple times with Robert and Eloy (who should also be nearly untouchable to me).
I suspect he wasn’t getting any offers that would match the heat he’d take for trading him. Again, accountability which is something Hahn doesn’t do.
Edit: Maybe a little bit of FU at the cynics but also its a way of claiming that why he’s coming away empty handed is because they were asking for too much. In other words, deflection, straw trade men, and a steady stream of crocodile tears.
Herb Lawrence is saying that he’s hearing Gallo to the Sox is happening. 1 yr 10 million
Admittedly I am not a Gallo fan, but I could see it becoming a 2023 version of Adam Eaton but instead of by mid May he literally can’t stay upright in the OF, Gallo would be unable to go to the plate anymore. Maybe he could be a 2023 version of Dallas Keuchel instead, or a 2023 version of Kelvin Herrera, or a 2023 version of Wellington Castillo, or a 2023 version of James Shields, or…ok Shields finished the season in 2018 but that was because we were tanking and he was a better bet to lose than some rookie who didn’t know better.
Anyhow, come to think of it what an incredible string of $8-10 mil salary eats.
Haven’t listened to the pod, but if this is an actual rumor it’s probably being floated by Boras to heat up the market on Gallo.
Padres end the meetings by signing Bogaerts 11/$280 mil. That’s 3 9-figure shortstops on the team. Damn, MLB may just declare them winners and bring the spending to an end.
Exciting Sox approach to free agents for next season, do nothing to improve on a 81-81 season. Perfect definition of insanity.