Sox Machine Live!: Sunshine and rainbows

Recorded 7/18/2019

Josh and Jim try very hard to be upbeat and positive about the White Sox current seven-game losing streak. The mood didn’t last long. 


  • Steve Stone’s tweets to fans
  • Ryan Goins
  • Charlie Tilson optioned with pending Adam Engel call up
  • Lack of creativity from the White Sox
  • Series preview against the Tampa Bay Rays: Can the White Sox win a game?

Presented by SeatGeek.

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As Cirensica

I like Jim’s phrase “….trying to get 5 innings of a pitcher that will be lucky to get three….” about Covey/Detwiler/etc….all this while James Shields is sitting pretty in his porch drinking beer. If Hahn would have signed Shields, he would be our 2nd best pitcher.

As Cirensica

Lazy management from Hahn?? Really Josh?

I don’t think so. I think it is just straight ineptitude.


I’m still not convinced that service time manipulation is the *primary* motivation in the Sox handling of Robert or Eloy for that matter. The handling of the other prospects make this difficult to defend, I think. 

My problem with the Sox FO is, as Josh put it, using the kid gloves in handling prospects. I think the main reason Eloy was held down is that they really thought he wasn’t ready to immediately mash in Chicago. And they were right. But they need to let these guys take their licks and improve with the big league club, and realize that they can still develop there. Especially when you’re fielding a team that’s purposively bad, why not let players like this develop in the Majors? 

The Sox just seem behind here. Other teams have been calling up enormously talented players, even teenagers, who haven’t played a game in AAA. Robert is *clearly* too talented for the minors. And yes, he might take some time to develop, but you’ll have a difficult time convincing me that a work-in-progress, developing Robert couldn’t play circles around Cordell, and it’d be a helluva lot more fun to watch.

As Cirensica

I have another theory (far fetched I know, but yet…). I think Hahn’s handling of top prospects is dictated by fear and insecurities. Hahn fears to expose himself if he calls up top prospects and the White Sox are still “mired in mediocrity”. He knows he is a bad GM, so he is extending this rebuild process as much as he can to buy time to keep strutting around with the GM badge and say corporate shit phrases while cashing big fat cheques.


I think that theory is the most plausible. As long as the rebuild continues, Hahn can just say, “We’re still in the process”. Results will be expected when the rebuild is done, so he keeps extending the rebuild time. What a moron.



Jim Margalus

The Sox proved it was about service time with Eloy when they optioned him to Charlotte in the spring, only to break camp with him on Opening Day after Eloy agreed to the extension that bought out free agent years and capped his earning potential.


I have no problem saying that service time is a motivation in these decisions. How could it not be? I’m doubting that its the primary one.

I’d guess that, If service time was not a factor at all, Eloy and Robert’s timelines would be roughly (+/- a few weeks) the same as they are now. The basic point is that I don’t think Hahn already has mid-April in mind for Robert for service time reasons. I’d say the same was true for Eloy, even if it worked out that they thought Eloy was ready ~opening day this year.

Jim Margalus

I have no doubt it was the primary one.


It was absolutely the primary reason.


You might be right. But given Eloy’s early struggles it doesn’t seem ridiculous to me that they actually saw flaws in his game that they wanted him to work out in the minors. And they don’t have a history of service time manipulation despite calling up 5-6 other top prospects over the last few years.

karkovice squad

They do have a history of service time manipulation. Which of those prospects were on an Opening Day roster?

And the minor league seasoning argument is still bunk. Hitting is reactive. The opposing team’s pitcher, not the hitter’s team, determines what hitters get to work on in games. Given his success, what what test were AAA pitchers providing for his flaws?

He needed to face more talented MLB pitchers to get exposed and he needed practice time to shore up the holes in his swing/approach.


A perfect argument for bringing Robert up now.

lil jimmy

“They do have a history of service time manipulation. ”
is there a team that doesn’t?

karkovice squad

Far more the rule than not. But Alonso and Tatis, Jr. are at least a couple exceptions to it, though.


Re: History of service time manipulation. Not being on an opening day roster is not the same thing as service time manipulation. I believe Kopech, Giolito, and Lopez were all called up in August, just weeks before the minor league season was over. They could have easily have made up some excuse and waited until late April of the next year (or about an extra 5-6 starts) to get an extra year of service time. 

Re: the minor league seasoning argument. I agree, hence my original post. My point was that Hahn’s problem is an antiquated idea that players need x amount of time in the minors, not that he manipulates service time. 

lil jimmy

Kopech, Giolito, and Lopez.
All pitchers. Add Cease.

karkovice squad

They waited for Rodon to earn the extra year. They delayed both Anderson and Moncada beyond the Super Two threshold for that matter.

You can’t separate the antiquated ideas about development from the service time manipulation. They’re self-serving justifications.


I admire Stone but he is old and probably extremely frustrated with what he is seeing. He also got booted out of Wrigley field for being honest about the quality of Cub baseball over a decade ago.he can not advert his eyes but watch and comment on this terrible baseball every day. he just probably wants to keep his job but he should limit his social media back 7 forth dealing with frustrated Sox fans 40 to 50 years his junior. Steve stay off of twitter or make sure someone reviews your tweets before they are posted. Take this advise from a fellow geezer.

Jim Margalus

He’s still going.

As Cirensica

I still haven’t hit the “follow” button

karkovice squad

I’ll say this for Stone, I can’t tell whether he’s sincere in his beliefs, is insincere but learned a lesson from his Cubs resignation, or is just a troll.

Jim Margalus

My guess is 2 and 3.


My favorite thing is that he accused fans who are upset right now of demanding “instant gratification”. Steve, going to high school, college and starting my career has been more “instant” gratification than being a White Sox fan.


It’s like a recurring nightmare- Adam Engel is in center field for the Sox tonight. Wake me up when it’s over.


This is probably the best defensive lineup the Sox have run out there since Anderson got hurt. I like McKay’s chances of continuing the nice start to his career though.


This is SUUUPER nit-picky but it always sticks in my ear every time I hear it:

Does anyone else hear @Josh Nelson drop the first “R” in “frustrated”, making it “fustrated”? Or is that just me? I always hear it and it makes my head jerk, because I’m a horrible pedant. Is there a regional accent that is related to that?

Sorry if this is a known thing, I did a search for a previous discussion about it and didn’t find one. And I do love the show, this is just something that’s been bugging me, irrationally.