White Sox brain trust to return in 2011

It took a summit with Jerry Reinsdorf, but Ozzie Guillen will be returning to the White Sox in 2011, without an extension in hand, and without an airtight endorsement from Kenny Williams.

It took a summit with Jerry Reinsdorf, but Ozzie Guillen will be returning to the White Sox in 2011, without an extension in hand, and without an airtight endorsement from Kenny Williams:

“It was very short,” Williams said. “I asked him directly ‘Do you want to be here? Do you want to be the manager of the Chicago White Sox?’ He said, ‘Absolutely.’ That it’s all he ever wanted. He wanted to know his status and I told him I hope I never have another manager — at least while I’m in this chair — for the Chicago White Sox other than him.”

I’ve seen this move before. Often times, when someone would inquire to my buddy’s grandpa regarding how many 7 and 7’s he had, he’d answer, “This is my first drink of the day … with this hand.” The 2011 White Sox budget could very well have a new furniture allowance.
But seriously, that leaves the door open for the Williams-promotion-Hahn-replacement scheme, where Rick Hahn could take over, discover that their philosophies don’t mesh, and Williams wouldn’t have — or choose to have — the authority to change his mind.
I’m not saying he’s setting it up for Guillen to be replaced — he’ll deny any other teams permission to talk to him, and Reinsdorf probably wouldn’t allow it anyway. However, he might be hinting that the decision won’t be his for much longer. Williams did say he’s not planning on rebuilding, so it might be one more year with him at the helm.
Guillen said he wanted to figure out how confident they were in his Chicago future so he could figure out how deep to set both personal and business roots. To his credit, Guillen is saying all the right things:

“It’s one thing, better than yesterday, hopefully worse than tomorrow,” Guillen said of the relationship. “We have work to do. Not on the field. Not about our work ethic is very good. What we do, what we get paid to do is very good. We’re going to get better about stuff happening in the past. Communication is going to be better. Hopefully everything goes back to normal. How normal it’s going to be? It will take a little while. But that’s what we want. That’s what he wants. That’s what I want. I guess that’s what our family needs. Everything will move forward, for good.”

However, shortly after the decision was announced, good ol’ Oney Guillen made sure everybody knew he was vaguely upset, telling his brother, “I went from having a good day. To a very bad (fornicating) day.” We can only hope that means Reinsdorf’s only other request — aside from working together to win — involved a muzzle.
And good news for Gang Greg and all you Walkermaniacs out there — the coaching staff will return for 2011 as well.
Greg Walker and Don Cooper are definitely in the fold, and Joey Cora will be there too, as long as he isn’t offered the managerial job of his dreams.
***************************
Shutdown corner:
*Bobby Jenks doesn’t know if he’ll be able to pitch in the final week of the season due to a nerve issue in his forearm.
*Gordon Beckham is going to take batting practice today to see if his hand will hold up to contact. He wants to finish the season on the field.
*Alex Rios bruised his knee squarely in the 6-1 loss to the Red Sox on Monday night. More about his status will be known today.

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Jim Margalus

Writing about the White Sox for a 16th season, first here, then at South Side Sox, and now here again. Let’s talk curling.

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expatnyc

There’s that sinking feeling again. It must feel pretty special to know you can make huge, obvious, loudly warned-against mistakes in your job and not suffer any consequences.

ricksch

well said, but that’s the world led by a lucky jackass who made millions in real estate and seems to know remarkably little about the toys he owns.
Sox fans will suffer as a result while they wax rhapsodic about ’05.

blah

Yeah, especially when that guy is the winning-est owner is Chicago history. Oh wait, that shoots a whole in your theory.

expatnyc

What theory? The one where too many Sox fans have succumbed to Stockholm Syndrome?

blah

The theory that some one can luck their way into a law degree from a top 10 law school, gain their CPA, run a successful business, buy two sporting franchises, bring those fledgling franchises to championship status, and finally keeping those franchises positions to contend in the future.
I don’t really think luck had much to do with it.
While I agree that this year has been frustrating from the get go (at least for me, I never liked the DH idea) I don’t really see how constructive ad hominem arguments are when evaluating this season.
Unless it’s to vent, then I understand.

ricksch

Fine, the guy earned his money, but that doesn’t discount the rest. Luck sure had something to do with Michael Jordan — or at least give that one to God, not Jerry. Anyways, MOST OF the winning you refer to is with the Bulls — and that was despite a NBA league-wide joke named Jerry Krause.
Reinsdorf’s reign over the Sox hasn’t been terribly successful though, has it? One Series win and a small handful of playoff appearances in about what, 30 years? As Hawk says, “even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.”
If you want to talk about successful owners, looks like Pollard (sp.?) of the Twins is the one with a trophy case full of hardware.

ricksch

Reinsdorf pulled some similar crap when he bilked the State of Illinois into building the Cell, while he threatened to move the team to St. Pete.
Let’s focus on results.
Jerry’s had FIVE PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN 29 YEARS! That pretty much sucks, doesn’t it? I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Jerry keeps marginally talented sycophants around him, (like J. Krause) rather than hire guys who’ve had real success. Kenny Willians isn’t bad as sycophants go, but he’s a second tier GM.

ricksch

The POINT here is that this Sox “braintrust” remains unaccountable to what are becoming more obvious and more massive errors — which you all seem to agree have been made. And yet, despite the fact that the gap between the Sox and their main competitor is clearly growing wider, we should hold onto the guys who are the cause of this gap — namely Kenny.
As for Reinsdorf, his track record as White Sox owner sucks big time. Take out ’05 and HOW MANY PLAYOFF SERIES did Jerry’s teams win in their four (count ’em on one hand) playoff appearances over 29 years!
Ten points for the person who answers first!

ricksch

“Reinsdorf didn’t try to kill the team for a windfall”.
You’re correct. He did not. Reinsdorf didn’t get to that cause he was able to extort the money from the State of Illinois. Pohlad couldn’t extort Minnesota so he went to plan B.
Basically, neither are saints. And there are plenty of owners, even in smaller markets, who haven’t threatened to move their team.

ricksch

“best owner the Sox have had so far”
Good God that IS funny!
You’ve successfully compared shit to shinola.

ricksch

St. Reinsdorf and his crony Bud Selig were also convicted of collusion in the signing of free agent Lance Parrish in 1992 — this was one of the major causes of the 1994 strike, which forced the cancellation of the first World Series in 90 years.
WWII couldnt stop baseball’s October Classic, but Jerry’s greed could.
I also left out Jerry’s intention in 1981 — just months after he purchased the Sox — to move the team to a site in Addison, IL — on land his real estate business purchased.
Sweet deal Jerry, sorry you couldn’t pull it off!
Then there’s the $55m salary for Albert Belle that basically contradicted all that Reinsdorf was puffing about vis a vis insane player salaries.
I guess business is business, forget all I claimed to stand for.
Reinsdorf legally screwed the City of Tucson over to move Spring Training near his home in the Phoenix area, where he charges more for meaningless practice games than most MLB franchise charge for regular season games.
Oh yes, Reinsdorf is a very shrewd man who has made a ton of money. But no, he’s not my hero — and I wonder about the selective memories of those who would admire him.

ricksch

Much of this is rather funny and the joke’s on all of us. Reinsdorf, Kenny and Ozzie couldn’t give two sh–ts what any of us think.
They are the sellers and we are the buyers. Some of us will gobble up any crap they have to offer, at any price, no matter how ridiculous.

sars

jerry, kenny and ozzie have what it takes to win! the intangibles! the front office versions of darin erstad! mix in some fire and some passion and you get grinder baseball.

Shinons

EVERYONE SUCKS AND IS STUPID BUT ME!!!!
/ricksch’d

blah

Sorry, I know that this is a Sox blog but I have to say this…
Jerry Krause was a good GM. He drafted Pippen, Grant, acquired Longley, Cartwright & Rodman for nothing. He got Kukoc and was instrumental in getting Phil Jackson to coach in Chicago.
He never got along with Jordan, but who cares. He engineered a dynasty that still competed without Jordan in 93-94 Eastern Conference Finals.

knoxfire30

Jerry has brought two franchises in two different sports to the highest level, its no wonder the coyotes of the NHL were desperate for him and his group to take over that franchise as well.
Really arent a lot of owners that have been better then JR who in my opinion has shed a lot of the “cheap” label he use to carry around.

ricksch

You have a very short memory of Jerry’s history with the White Sox.

knoxfire30

Regardless of being pro or con on either kenny or ozzie or both, I think all fans can agree the best case scenario was a quick resolution to occur before the start of the offseason.
Smart move by Reinsdorf and co to get everyone together and stop the uncertainty and media bickering that was a daily fiasco. Good work, lets move forward and build a winner for 2011, believe me there is plenty of work to be done!

Buehrlesque

While I’m disappointed in the lack of accountability and evaluation of the Sox staff, I am not surprised by this turn of events- all along I thought this was the most likely outcome.
However, it doesn’t mean a thing who is managing this team if he doesn’t have the horses to ride. How good this team will be in 2011 will be entirely determined by the personnel moves made by KW; having Ozzie vs. not having Ozzie really won’t make much of a difference.

buford

Tuesday, May 4, 2010
Guillen reflects on 1,000 games as manager
By Bruce Levine
Ozzie Guillen reflected on his tenure at the helm of the Chicago White Sox as he managed his 1,000th game in Tuesday’s 7-2 loss to the Kansas City Royals.
I asked Guillen if he thought he would quit or be fired when the time comes for him to leave the job.
“Fired,” Guillen said. “Because I’m not going to quit. I’m not a quitter. When I want to quit I’ll make sure I do a lot of stupid things to make them fire me and get paid.”
Wednesday, February 24, 2010
Tweeting Ozzie just wants to have fun
By ESPNChicago.com
…… Guillen said if tweeting becomes a problem for Williams or White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf he would consider stopping. But if he could figure out a way to make money off it, then the discussion might be more difficult.
“If I was making money out of this then we’d fight,” Guillen said. “If I was making money out of this, I don’t care who told me, Jerry, Kenny, my mom, my dad, I would tell them to [forget] themselves. I just want to have fun, but if there was money involved I’m pretty sure I would get fired because I would fight for it.”
Ozzie constantly claims that his love for his family, the White Sox, and Jerry Reinsdorf in particular are foremost in his life. But then he bellows that the pursuit of money would allow him to throw games and curse out his parents and Reinsdorf.
The Sox have had enough of this guy talking out of both sides of his mouth. Regardless of this meeting, Ozzie will be gone.

dalton

I have liked most of the moves KW has made the past few years. He is trying to put the White Sox in the best possible position to win the WS. There are a lot of armchair GMs, armed with their sabermetrics and barbed opinions, flattering themselves they know better than KW, and pouncing on him at the first hint of a mistake. (Please begin defending yourselves in earnest here).
I like that he went after Peavy. Showed me he was serious about bringing in a premier big-name pitcher and that it reinforced to the team, the fans, and the league that another WS title was his expectation for the White Sox. So Peavy got hurt again. It happens. But how he got hurt – a detached lat muscle – is a freaky, rare injury. Do you know anyone with a completely torn lat muscle? I’m a bodybuilder/powerlifter – dudes are tearing muscles and tendons and otherwise getting injured all the time, and I can’t recall anyone with that specific injury.
Rios has panned out nicely after an abysmal start to his White Sox career. Almost makes me forget about Aaron Rowand…
The DH thing was a mess. I think he should have been more active in trading for an Adam Dunn earlier in the season rather than waiting until the last month to bring in Mr. Single, Manny Ramirez, but I was still excited by the prospect of seeing what Manny could do for Chicago. And regardless of the fact that he has, what, one extra-base hit, his OBP alone has made him more useful than our DH platoon.

expatnyc

Well, shit. If all the guy has to do is show good will, then yeah, why is anyone complaining? But, of course, that’s not how you measure success. No one is claiming Kenny is a bad guy. I don’t know whether I’d like to work for him, but no one can deny his passion for the Sox, for the game. But we are not discussing “the first hint of a mistake.” There have actually been several nonsense moves, topped off with checking out of the decision to sign Thome. I don’t blame him for acquiring Peavy or Rios–I liked both those moves. I think a lot of people liked the Peavy deak. Not as many liked the Rios pickup, but they’ve come around. But: Linebrink? Teahen? Hudson? Letting Ozzie do his job? Those are nonsense moves. I get the high-risk, high-reward thing. What the hell do you call those decisions? Or nondecisions? And now we have to deal with Ozzie and the Family Dolt for at least another year. No thanks.

Shinons

Defend them? Sure, I’ll give it a whirl. I’ll start off by saying NONE of them were high risk-high reward. Or even close to high risk. High risk is giving $30 million to Milton Bradley or $126 million to Barry Zito.
Linebrink: at the time Williams said he didn’t get the backlash against the Linebrink signing. I agree. He payed pretty much market value, was probably just a year too long – but with free agents, you kinda are in competition with the rest of their league to secure their services, ya know? Some other relievers from that offseason: Franscisco Cordero 4 years, $46 million with a fifth year option; Troy Percival (coming out of retirement, hadn’t been healthy in years) 2 years, $8 million; Eric Gagne 1 year, $10 million. Get the picture? In fact, we paid Dotel more over first two years, even though his previous season was worse and he was three years older than Linebrink (maybe even more, as the DR has had a tendency to stretch the truth on birth certificates) – yet no one complains about that one. Looking at the rest of the free agency landscape, we didn’t really overpay him – and if he would have performed as well as any of his previous three seasons, he would have been a great value.
Teahen: we bought out his arbitration years, and the deal is only three years for a guy who should be entering his prime – that’s NOT high risk. And we didn’t overpay him – he made $3.5 million in 2009 and $3.7 with the deal we gave him. I would guess he would have gotten more had he went to arbitration. To declare he was our third baseman of the future was the risky part of that decision, but even that was tempered by bringing on Vizquel.
Hudson: in all likelihood, Hudson was traded to bring in Adam Dunn. That would have been a coup.
Letting Ozzie do his job: wtf? You blame Williams for the Thome thing, when it Ozzie was the one blabbing about how he didn’t want Thome. How does a GM sign a guy who your manager is going public with that he doesn’t want?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100121&content_id=7952088&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws&partnerId=rss_cws

ricksch

More whack-a-mole? Blame Kenny for Thome — no, it was Ozzie’s fault, Blame Ozzie — are you nuts? It was Kenny’s responsibility.
As for the Hudson deal. Guess what, Adam Dunn isn’t here. Kenny was either screwed over by Rizzo or made a very ill-advised and short-sighted decision. Either way he screwed up. Or was Ozzie responsible? No, it was Kenny. No, it was Oney.
“She was my sister. She was my daughter!”

Shinons

From Buster Onley: “Other teams say that in recent weeks,the Nationals had told other teams that a key piece to anyone who wanted Adam Dunn was Edwin Jackson. This caused a number of teams to try to pry Jackson away from the D-Backs, with the White Sox finally landing Jackson today–and as of 7 p.m. Eastern, the Nats are indicating they’re not sure if they want Jackson anymore. So as of tonight, teams are pulling their hair out over the Nats’ machinations.”
So yes, almost certainly, Hudson was traded for Jackson to secure Dunn. Additional evidence to believe that is that Williams rarely deals with Boras and it’s not often you make a deal just to tell everyone how outraged you are about having made it.
And yes, Thome was on Ozzie. If he didn’t want Thome back, he should have told Williams, not the media. Going public with it undermined both Thome and Williams, which puts the responsibility squarely on Ozzie. It’s easy to say “Williams should have signed him anyways,” but how often do GM’s sign someone their manager is openly, loudly, and constantly saying he doesn’t want? When’s the last time that’s happened?
Eh, fuck it. EVERYONE’S STUPID AND SUCKS BUT ME!!!!!

expatnyc

Sure, if you want to set the scales to Zito money, fine. Then how many high-risk moves have been made by anyone? I think Rios, who was given one of the most lucrative contracts at the time, was a high risk. So we’ll have to agree to disagree.
The problem with the Linebrink contract was not simply about money, it was about length–especially given his declining numbers. That’s the picture I get, friend.
What do you think Teahen’s prime is, exactly? I’m not sure how well he’d do in arb, especially given this campaign.
We didn’t get Dunn.
I blame Ozzie for fantasizing about managing a National League club, for irrationally believing that we didn’t need a high-OBP lefty slugger, and for balking at one as cheap as Thome. And then I blame Kenny for taking Ozzie’s advice. The general manager is, as you know, above the manager. So yeah, plenty of blame to go around.

Shinons

Uh, I also mentioned a case that involved $30 million. So I don’t think that’s “setting the scales to Zito money.” Just making the point that deals with average annual salaries under $5 million aren’t relatively risk. I agree that Rios was a high risk, and Peavy too, but those guys are on a COMPLETELY different scale than Teahen or Linebrink. The risk is far higher, as is the potential reward. Anyways, I wasn’t saying that any of these three deals were good – just justifiable looking at the context involved.
I agree that the problem with Linebrink’s deal was length. But it’s about opportunity costs. Is the fourth year worse than having to do something like paying $8 million to Percival or $10 million to Gagne, moving more of an already thin farm, not having enough arms? And if we didn’t add that fourth year on, saw Linebrink go elsewhere, I think there’s a solid debate to say that we’d be worse off.
Teahen: he was 28 entering the season – I usually consider that the prime age. And the last few years have gone really well for players in arbitration. But I think the most relevant part of the Teahen situation is that he barely got a raise over what he made last year, and also that KC is paying $1.5 million always seems neglected to be mentioned…
No, we didn’t get Dunn. That sucked.
Anyways, the main point of all this is to say there are a lot of shades of gray here. It’s easy to shake fists at the deals that didn’t work out, but just so long as looking at it in retrospect there’s some sort of reasonable context for the decision I personally prefer to shrug my shoulders and say that’s what comes with an aggressive GM – and I’d prefer an aggressive GM over a hand-wringing pansy. So Teahen and Linebrink haven’t worked out. I’m more concerned about the Peavy and Rios level deals – those are the ones that put a bigger strain on the club.

bigfun

That Cordero deal was bad too. It is almost never a good idea to give a reliever more than two years. Even the good ones experience a ton of variance year to year.
At least Cordero was coming off a career year when he got his deal, so you can understand why the Reds overpaid. Linebrink was coming off a bad year and the Sox scouted/wishcasted wrong.

fustercluck

Oh, you’re that Dalton. Great job cleaning up the Double Deuce, and good luck with us Sox Machine knuckleheads.
And I think Ricksch is the one who threw the beer bottle at Jeff Healey.

ricksch

It’s not that I expect objectivity from fans. Irrationally, I love the Sox too — have since I was a little kid. The difference is, I know it’s irrational. That way, I don’t have to check my brain at the door.
Reinsdorf hires sycophants with zero or very little track record to save money and maintain a higher degree of control. On a few occasions it works out, though very rarely with the White Sox.
When a really talented guy comes along with good ideas, like Tony LaRussa — he gets fired by the freakin’ lame-brained announcer made GM, Hawk Harrelson?!
As for the Bulls, Rod Thorn drafted Michael Jordan, without whom the Bulls would not have won a damn thing. When Jerry bought the Bulls, he promptly fired Thorn and installed Crumbs Krause as his GM. The Bulls won six titles, but the ego of some horribly obese pig forced out perhaps the greatest coach in NBA history, and likely sacrificed two more very good shots at a ring.
Kenny W. isn’t the anti-Christ. He’s just a crappy GM. So many of you seem so keyed up on the team and winning — but the thing that really sabotaged the team this year were his bad decisions.
So are you seeing the pattern yet? Reinsdorf hires ass-kissers, not qualified GMs to run his operations.
To his credit, Reinsdorf put up $110m this year. That’s the 6th or 7th highest payroll in baseball. Jerry’s not being cheap now — though he IS making sure to recoup all he can from witless fans who pay $50 to watch the game with binoculars.
I didn’t start on Jerry. Jim was saying he was such a desired owner and I thought — wait a minute, were you a Sox fan in the ’80s and ’90s.? Back when he spent next to nothing and the team perpetually sucked? When Jerry basically ended the ’94 season all by himself, with the Frank Thomas led Sox in first place? Guess we all forget that shit — or were still in Pampers and didn’t know about it. Just so you know, all the stuff about Jerry trying to move the team not once but TWICE, and his collusion conviction are also documented and true. Look it up. No, it’s not in your Sabermetrics annual – try an encyclopedia.
But I guess it’s okay that Reinsdorf is a known scumbag, and union buster from way back.
Of course, fan, as in fanatics, believe whatever the hell they want. Enjoy your ignorance and all of the second and third place finishes the Sox have ahead of them.

ricksch

Okay Jim, please pardon me, it’s shit from shinola time again. My mistake is to assume that when one compares, there’s a clear upside to the choice they’ve made. Not just the lesser of two evils.
My whole freakin point about the Twins from the get-go is that they’ve been very successful and the Sox have not, no matter who the hell owns either teams.

Shinons

No Jim, actually you didn’t say anything pro or con about Reinsdorf before Ricksch started in on his rant. No one did – he was the first one to say something one way or another about Reinsdorf: “well said, but that’s the world led by a lucky jackass who made millions in real estate and seems to know remarkably little about the toys he owns.”
Came in response to a statement about the lack of accountability, not Reinsdorf.

sars

why are you such a bummer? tony larussa is a fucking moron that’s ruined major league rosters and tricked everyone thinking 12 pitchers are a necessity. joe west should be complaining about his ass, not yankees/red sox games.
frankly, i could care less what any owners past discretions are; you don’t think that there’s something dirty about all thirty of them? it’s kind of silly to think that there’s some saint of an owner that didn’t fuck over the little guy once or twice to get where he is.
also, this has nothing to do with sabermetrics. you don’t seem like a moron, so i don’t know why you repeatedly choose to ignore the world of advanced statistics. do you think cc sabathia deserves the cy young?

ricksch

Sorry I’m such a bummer.
Now go get your shinebox. Kenny’s coming off the elevator and his loafers are dirty.

dalton

I do remember them perpetually sucking back then. I still bear emotional scars from the ’83 ALDS sweep at the hands of the Orioles… Well, not really, but that was pretty rough on an 11-year old who lived and breathed baseball.
He’s a union buster? That can mean only one thing: Obama’s comin’ to take over the White Sox.
How’d your fantasy teams do this year?

blah

I don’t appreciate the ab hominem just because I don’t agree with you.
“Reinsdorf hires sycophants with zero or very little track record to save money and maintain a higher degree of control.”
Who specifically? Everyone who works for JR has worked from the bottom up. Rick Hahn, Brooks Boyer, even KW… I don’t see how loyalty to JR makes them sycophants, brown nosers, or anything else. No GM in baseball magically had 20 years of experience as a GM before he got his first job in baseball.
“As for the Bulls”
As you put it below with reference to the Cubs, no one is talking about the Bulls. I only brought it up earlier because you attacked JR for being a bad owner, which he is not.
“Kenny W. isn’t the anti-Christ. He’s just a crappy GM.”
Again, as compared to who? The decade KW has been in charge has been the most successful since the 1910’s. KW doesn’t run around with a blank checkbook like Hendry or Cashman. The Sox don’t spend the money on draft picks like Epstein.
Look if you want to talk about accountability in the White Sox organization, fine. I agree that there is a lack of accountability.
I don’t really care about your efforts to justify anger with the team to anger with a specific entity. I don’t appreciate being called sheeple. I don’t appreciate the assumption that I am ignorant of my teams past.
Those things aren’t relative to a discussion about the White Sox moving forward. And more importantly it takes away from time I have photoshopping my head onto the Hulks body… so please…

fustercluck

Glad to hear you self-identify as a Sox fan, Ricksch. I figured you hated them with every fiber of your being, what with the scorched earth policy you’d have the team adopt from the chairman down. I get that you think the ownership group should sell the team to a filthy rich and benevolent genius. I’m just not sure there’s an abundance of people who fit that description and are interested in running a sports franchise.
When you’re fit to burst with hyperbolic vitriol, it might be a good time to reassess what benefit you actually receive from having something as trivial as a favorite baseball team.

dalton

So it was him! What, did Healey not properly interpret someone’s GPALC (Guitar Playing Against Liquor Consumed) and offer him a spot in the band over a young, unproven Joe Satriani?
“Pain don’t hurt.”

dalton

I don’t understand Teahan. I did watch him in RF poorly misplay a ball against Oakland that led to a double, then make a fine running catch an inning or two later. But still, the guy isn’t worth the money he’s being paid.
Hudson for Jackson – it has turned out well for both teams, though Jackson costs more in terms of salary.
Linebrink was effective his first year with Chicago, and from ’03 – ’07, was a solid reliever (logging 71+ appearances in four straight seasons, two of those with an ear 2.14 or lower). I figure KW thought Linebrink would shore up the bullpen. Unfortunately, over the past two seasons, it hasn’t panned out that way.
Maybe honestly he deep down figured Thome was washed up? Good for Thome and the Twins that he had something left (including an SI cover – more than the Sox got when the won the freaking WS in ’05), but I can guess at the reaction on this board had he batted .222 with 11 HR and 42 RBI as our slow-moving, K-friendly DH this year. Kenny would have been lambasted for that.
Now, understand me, I think it was a mistake on Ozzie’s part for going with the DH-platoon (I would have just given most of those bats to Andruw Jones, after his hot start, and ride him through a whole year), and for KW not to address this glaring deficiency by either moving Quentin and a relief pitcher for a big bat (since CQ’s personality doesn’t lend itself to him DHing or whatever).

ricksch

Hudson for Jackson was a huge error. You can’t overvalue a young but ready starting pitcher who is signed for the next three-four years at league minimum and won’t be a free agent for a long time. Jackson gets $8m next year and if he does well, it will take big bucks to sign him going forward.
The ONLY way that trade is merely bad, not horrible, would be if the Sox had a real shot at going deep in the playoffs this year. They clearly didn’t. The bullpen was already gassing when they got Jackson and we were still short a DH.
Unless you have unlimited payroll like the Yankees, you need as many guys like Hudson that you can hope to find. When you get one, you freakin’ hang onto him. You don’t trade him for a pipe dream that never came close to materializing.
Linebrink I thought was a good trade at the time. He had a long track record of success. $20m/4yrs. was probably too much for a reliever but there were other teams interested no doubt. But Linebrink was only effective until the AS break his first year. After that, he’s been pure garbage. The problem with Linebrink is that the Sox won’t eat salary and trade the bum. They want to carry seven guys in the pen, but two or three of them are dead spots (pick two more from Randy, Torres, Harrell & Pena) These are guys you’d be crazy to use with the game on the line.
So what happens when your main guys like Putz, Jenks and Thornton have issues? We know the answer, right? Just imagine if the Sox didn’t have Santos who came out of nowhere or didn’t get Sale who had the stuff and the composure to come straight to the bigs from Little League.
It’s of course, easy to criticize in hindsight, but many of us were saying the same things since before the season began.
The story of the Sox in 2010 is really bad management/roster construction and perhaps one of the poorest performances from a $110m payroll on record. Someone is responsible? Or no one is responsible?
Ah hell, you’re all so right. Jerry, Ozzie and Kenny are all great baseball men and pillars of society. If they don’t all end up in Cooperstown, it’s a shame! Now who’s hogging the Lithium?

dalton

I think KW’s stubbornness has definitely come back to bite him in the rear this season, particularly where our bullpen was concerned. You have a point there.
As for coming close to materializing, the White Sox did have a division lead fairly late into the season. Yes, the bullpen blew up.
As for Hudson, how long before his shoulder blows up? He’s been shutdown for the year with shoulder tightness, hasn’t he?

ricksch

I don’t think you can bring injuries into the trade discussion or assume Hudson’s career is going to end prematurely. Hudson had a long season, starting in AAA. He’s probably never thrown this many innings. We’ve shut down Danks and Floyd at different times as they became accustom to 175+ big league innings.

dalton

True.
I’d be curious to see what would have happened had the Sox stayed in contention right up through the very end of the season, whether or not they would have rested Hudson. Look what happened to Floyd – shoulder tightness. Might be nothing (Lord knows I’ve had all sorts of shoulder issues, including arthroscopic surgery on a 100% ruptured suprespinatus, so I know tightness from shinola – and sometimes one become the other right quick). Can you imagine the uproar if the Sox, chasing down the Twins or in trying to hold them off – had to shutdown Floyd and Hudson? After losing Peavy? I think Cooper would be run out of town on a rail, his fault or not (and I say it wouldn’t be).

blah

Of course you can bring injuries and speculate on health concerns going forward… After all aren’t you speculating on future performance?

ricksch

So Hudson is going to miss one or two starts in a meaningless season. Maybe we should have known Peavy was going to tear up his shoulder? Truth is, neither pitcher had any pronounced history of being hurt.
Anyhow, this has all been great fun, but I need to roll my Hummer over a few newborn puppies and it’s Social Security check day and there are lots of old people waiting to be had.

blah

“neither pitcher had any pronounced history of being hurt.”
The next time Jake pitches 200 innings will be his 4th time to do so.
He’s good, but to pretend he hasn’t had trouble staying healthy is incorrect.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/peavyja01.shtml

Shinons

Peavy was also on the DL when we acquired him. To correct all of Ricksch’s stupid comments today would be an 8 hour gig. And besides, I don’t think he really cares whether the crap he spews is accurate or not.

sars

the cubs roster has performed this bad for the last three years with repeated playoff let downs and an even higher payroll. moving on…
the bullpen was the LEAST of my concern. and if you think signing ANY reliever to a 4yr/20mi deal, you are batshit crazy. reliever performance is so volitile unless your name is mariano, joe, or matt. look at jonathan broxton, for god’s sake. three months ago i would’ve included his name in the aforementioned list; today he’s not even the setup man. the sox had and still have four quality, high-leverage relievers; putz, thornton, sale, and santos. when you’re working with a 60 inning limit, fans tend to stress and remember the poor performances more than the good ones. not to mention those awful, 0.1ip, 5er lines screw up your overall line at the end of the year.
the hudson deal was retarded. he’s not as good as he’s been with the d-backs…but you’re right; giving away five years of cheap team control for a 3-4 win pitcher is retarded.

ricksch

no one is talking about the Cubs. Clearly there are worse franchises in baseball than the Sox.
I was giving Kenny the benefit of the doubt on Linebrink. It was clearly way too long in hindsight. But Christ, we got a half-year out of that bum. Cut bait at some point!
I think if you’re going to have seven relievers, they should all be ready to make a contribution. Of course, your seventh guy isn’t going to be as good as your closer, but you have to be able to count on Mr. Seven sooner or later during the long season.
Sox were struggling and clearly didn’t have the horses but they shitcanned Hudson on a desperate flyer or got screwed over on a botched trade for Dunn.

sars

and no one was talking about the bulls, either. you said the white sox have one of the poorest $110m performances for a team…i picked a team that has a higher payroll and worse performance.
also; why given kenny the benefit of the doubt on maybe the worst signing of his tenure?

fustercluck

“The story of the Sox in 2010 is really bad management/roster construction and perhaps one of the poorest performances from a $110m payroll on record.”
Ben Fry has a pretty interesting salary vs. performance chart here. It doesn’t paint the Sox in a good light, but it’s not like they’re epically underachieving, either.
re:Linebrink, I seem to recall that signing was blasted immediately by other clubs as Kenny screwing up the reliever market for the rest of them. He overpaid a guy in money and years, who padded his stats in an extreme pitchers’ park, to come and throw gopher balls in a hitters’ park. That it blew up in his face is karmic justice.

dalton

First time I read that last line, I thought you had written, “karmic juice.”
Say, didn’t Linebrink pitch in the same park as Jake Peavy..?

fustercluck

ummm, extra bulldog credit?

sars

he signed linebrink coming off his stint in milwaukee…when he was awful.

soxfan1

A little bird told me that Ozzie will get a three year extension and that Kenny will be promoted to team president with Adam Hahn taking over as GM by opening day 2011. That will make both guys very happy. So deal with it. Compared to the 60’s, 70’s & 80’s the last 20 years have been a lot more interesting for the Chisox under Reindorf’s ownership. We all know that he is very smart and also part thief. I bet the team made money every year he has owned them except for the strike year. Forget about those $12 seats we talked about a week or so ago. I predict a modest increase in 2011 prices and a slightly lower payroll.

expatnyc

Adam Hahn, formerly of the Wildcats? Wow. That guy has quite the tool set.

bigfun

LOL

soxfan1

The little bidie was purple.

jmsdn58

I used to love this blog, but the last few months it sounds more like the Minnesota fare weather bullshit that I have grown to hate living in Minneapolis as a Sox fan for the last 7 years.