Sox Machine Live!: White Sox still searching for answers after series loss to Phillies

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  • Josh Nelson

    Josh Nelson is the host and producer of the Sox Machine Podcast. For show suggestions, guest appearances, and sponsorship opportunities, you can reach him via email at josh@soxmachine.com.

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upnorthsox

Maybe I misheard but I thought Stone was talking that Burger was about to be sent down for Moncada.

HallofFrank

Man, things are bleak. It’s hard to find any reason to hope at this point and I consider myself an optimistic person. Here are my two best grasps at optimism.

  1. I think the pitching will be fine. Results have been super uneven, but I think the starting pitching is fine and the bullpen will even out.
  2. Andrew Benintendi and Eloy Jimenez. Man. These guys have been bad. But I think they’ll both figure it out and be fine-to-good. That helps this offense a lot.

Is it enough? I don’t know. But it at least gives me reason to hope better days are ahead.

HallofFrank

Also – I finally figured out who Luis Robert Jr. is. He’s Mike Trout for 2 weeks, then Billy Hamilton for 2 weeks. There is no in-between.

knoxfire30

No more middling around, need this team to go full blown death spiral and continue on their pace. Any excuse the front office can use to gaslight us and keep their jobs is useless I don’t want some 4 or 5 games under 500 team headed into the ASB or at the time of the deadline, I want a 20 games below its over team. The division wont run away from them so they need to run away from the division.

Sell off anyone that isnt under reasonable contract control, and get what you can for them:

Grandal
Giolito
Lynn
Hendrix
Graveman
Kelly
Clevinger
Andrus

Field offers on basically anyone else if you are blown away enough to make a move.

Its OVAH!!!!!

roke1960

I agree with you- except what will change in the front office? Do you really think Jerry will fire Hahn AND hire someone from a winning organization, AND give them total control over personnel moves? Not a chance that will happen. All that will happen is Jerry will promote Hahn, Hahn will hire Chris Getz to be his replacement, and rebuild 3 will go the same way (or worse) than rebuild 2. Do you trust this front office to get anything of value for the guys they trade?

The only thing we can hope for is Jerry to sell- which won’t happen, or for nature to take its course on a grumpy, cheap, 87-year old.

Augusto Barojas

Getting value in trades is the only thing Hahn has proven is at least possible. Eloy and Cease for Quintana was great, even if Eloy turns out to be worth nothing. Gio, Lopez, and Dunning for Eaton was also pretty good. The Sale trade wasn’t as good, but compared to signing free agents or drafting/developing, trades are one thing Hahn has done well a couple of times, which is better than anything else he has done.

I don’t trust anybody in their organization frankly. But right now, making some trades is pretty sensible. What else can they do, it’s better than all those guys walking and getting nothing in return. This is really like rooting for the Bears the past 15 years honestly, will probably prove pretty pointless in the end.

roke1960

When was the last time Hahn made a good trade? It’s now going on 7 years since the beginning of the last rebuild and the blockbuster trades he made. And the days of getting someone’s top 2 prospects in a trade are over- unless you’re trading Juan Soto with 3 years of control. The problem is, there is nothing they can do until Jerry is no longer owner. We have seen that he won’t fire anyone in the front office. I really would like to have a conversation with him to see what he thinks of this disaster. Is he really pleased with the job that Hahn has done?

Last edited 1 year ago by roke1960
knoxfire30

There are no good choices for action moving forward if Jerry owns the team, and kenny and rick run the team. We all know this.

Knowing this, the best course of action is still a half way rebuild/reload. Get rid of an expensive bullpen and a couple guys you wont be resigning, try and revamp again during the next off season.

Sox remain a team whose only chance is drawing to an inside straight… its sad but its all the have.

roke1960

I actually think the best course of action moving forward is hope to get everyone healthy and catch lightning in a bottle. There is no way Hahn is going to get equal value back trading Timmy, Liam, Giolito, Graveman and Lynn. And he’s not going to get anything back for an aging catcher who had a horrible year last year, a clubhouse cancer, and a guy nobody else wanted in free agency (Andrus). If Timmy, Yoan, Hendriks and Crochet come back healthy and productive, there is a lot of talent on this team. Of course the odds of that happening and Eloy, Benintendi, Lynn, etc. all playing to their potential is about 1 in a million. But the odds of letting Hahn start another rebuild and making it successful is probably 1 in 1000000000000000000000000.

knoxfire30

I would disagree on Grandal, he has been actually good early on behind the plate and if he is ops’ing 400ish he has value.

He could easily break down at some point but he has had an encouraging start to the year.

You are probably right on Anderson and Lynn not being able to get what you may have thought they would have.

Graveman would basically be a salary dump

Hendrix still has time to come back, look like his old self and he would carry value, he has a very reasonable 2024 salary as well.

roke1960

But what would you get for Grandal. A 35-year old catcher who would be a 3-4 month rental won’t fetch anything more than a fringe AA guy. We don’t need any more of those. You’re certainly not getting anyone’s top prospects for 3-4 months of a guy who can’t play every day.

knoxfire30

No one is expecting top prospect value back, but he can bring you a lower level guy who may have some intrigue.

FishSox

I don’t have enough insight into trade values but I would think TA would be a valuable commodity for the right fit. Top of the order former batting champ that plays SS and has some power? Lynn right now is a bag of balls guy.

Trooper Galactus

A .400 OPS is awful, but I’m assuming you meant OBP.

FishSox

I disagree only in the sense that I believe JR won’t do anything, like promoting Hahn and making Getz GM. He’s going to give Hahn a budget number and then turn off his phone.

roke1960

I don’t think he’ll do anything either, but in the small chance that he does SOMETHING, it would be to promote Hahn.

upnorthsox

There are lots of reasons why JR would fire Hahn but you are right that JR wont do anything because Kenny is JRs guy and JR has no reason to fire Kenny and KW certainly isn’t going to Pax it. Now Kenny may find reasons to fire Hahn but I wouldn’t count on it. Hahn has 3 simple rules, don’t do anything that does harm between JR and KW, don’t do anything that does harm to KW, and do what you can as long as it doesn’t conflict with rules 1 and 2.

So if you really want to see Hahn gone then you need to find a reason for Kenny to fire Rick and even then his replacement will need to agree to the same 3 rules that Hahn works by, that would rule out a James Click or any other desirable.

Augusto Barojas

Loved “the division won’t run away from them, so they need to run away from the division.” Their next 3 series may help.

I concur, they are going to need to blow it up. Better they face that inevitability sooner than later. Tim is gone after next year, so add him to the list, and Yoan. Tim is probably their most valuable trade chip since they have him through 2024, if he actually comes back and stays healthy. I’ve said before that the Dodgers would make an ideal trade partner, they could use Tim and bullpen help, and have a great farm system with several top 50 players. I say send them Tim, Liam, and Gio, get their top 4 or 5 prospects and re-stock this other worldly pitiful farm system.

dwjm3

The Dodgers usually hold on to their top prospects and simply make significant commitments to free agents. There likely isn’t a scenario where the Dodgers give up their top 4 or 5 prospects.

roke1960

Yep, you’re not getting the Dodgers top prospects for 1 or 2-year rentals. They’ll just wait and sign them in free agency.

knoxfire30

They could probably get them to come forward high a higher end prospect in a group deal, Timmy, Gio, Hendrix may excite them….

Augusto Barojas

You’re probably right. They might be able to get at least a couple though for a package around Tim. With Lux out, the Dodgers have a clear need, and could use bullpen help. If they could get 2 or 3 prospects, it’s better than Tim and Liam leaving after next season for zilch. 2 or 3 is possible.

upnorthsox

Mookie Betts, but I don’t think they gave up top prospects for him. Verdigo was high but not tops. The Dodgers aren’t afraid to trade prospects for prospects though to get alignments with their needs.

bobsquad

The Dodgers are an org that has swung trades for Betts, Scherzer, Turner, Darvish, and Machado for “prospects” who have combined for 7.3 bWAR in their MLB careers since. They’re ideal receivers, not necessarily senders.

FishSox

Ask Cubs fans how they feel about Dodger trades! ๐Ÿ™‚

bobsquad

If this team isn’t at .500 by 5/31, Sox Machine should solicit Midseason Plan Projects.

knoxfire30

love that idea

StockroomSnail

Rebuild Plan Project

roke1960

Owen Schofield summed it up best:

As long as Jerryโ€™s owner, Iโ€™d rather win 78-84 games a year with a โ€œluckyโ€ season getting you a WC spot or division. I have no confidence that another 3-4 year 90+ loss rebuild would even put them in a better place than their โ€œpretender that might get luckyโ€ status.

Trooper Galactus

I wouldn’t be going to games either way, so whatever.

StockroomSnail

Urge to dour rising….

dwjm3

Im glad you mentioned we won’t sign up for Rick and Kenny rebuild part three. It is an important point to put out there.

upnorthsox

Nor are we signing up for Chris Getz which is mentioned way too often as a viable alternative.

To Err is Herrmann

“This is the fate we have chosen for ourselves.”