P.O. Sox: Why all the angst? Some questions answer that.

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jorgefabregas

Here’s a positive: White Sox are 3rd in MLB in FG baserunning runs. Here is their rank in recent years:
2022 20
2021 17
2020 15
2019 10

shaggy65

They started last year like gangbusters, as well, but fell back when Tim and Luis had health problems.

Still, Zavala is on pace for 12 SBs and that feels sustainable.

HallofFrank

I’m not ready to crown Katz as elite but I’ll go to bat for him here. In the Katz era, the Sox have seen quite a few successes on the mound: Giolito, Cease, and Rodon are the big ones. But the Sox also got excellent performances from Cueto and Davis Martin last year, even though those guys stunk elsewhere. Lopez and Lambert have reinvented themselves in the bullpen. Foster and Banks have overperformed. I guess guys like Kopech, and to a lesser extent Ruiz, count against Katz because they are talented but haven’t unlocked that next level. But overall, I think he’s done well with the hand he’s been dealt.

Once again, I think the problem goes back to roster construction. It feels like the Sox have entered the last three seasons one arm too short. Instead of filling out the rotation like they should, they dumpster dive for a veteran. But Katz has turned one man’s trash into another man’s treasure, for the most part: Rodon, Vazquez, Cueto, and Clevinger are what the Sox FO found in the dumpster. Given where they found them, I think Katz’ performance is a solid double—if not a home run—in this category.

Augusto Barojas

Katz is most certainly not the problem with any of their pitching woes. He couldn’t make the Giants entire staff great, nobody has that power. It’s all about the roster, which boils down to lack of quality, and depth.

As much as having guys out of their lineup hurts, it would be nothing compared to if one of their starters had an injury. Which is why it is such a precarious situation to have 3/5 of your rotation come off a year where they threw less than 130 innings, with no quality backup in sight.

HallofFrank

Yeah, it’s obviously really difficult to parse credit here. Of course, I don’t think Katz said “try this,” then Cueto had a great year. But, in addition to fixing problems, the pitching coach’s job is to create an environment where good pitchers can succeed. If guys live Cueto thrive in Chicago but not elsewhere, it’s at least evidence that should be considered.

fustercluck

Johnny thrived in Chicago because he was able to Basically Stay Healthy, a feat the FO wisely did not gamble on repeating. Unless Katz was transferring the core’s chi to Johnny, Gloveonchair could’ve been his pitching coach.

texag10

I’m not sure why Kopech would count against Katz, yet. He had one abysmal (doesn’t seem strong enough of a word) start and then bounced back nicely in start 2. He was good last year but struggled through injuries. Is it because we all penciled him in as a TOR guy after the trade?

HallofFrank

I would say it counts against him in the softest possible sense. I certainly wouldn’t blame Katz for Kopech’s struggles. But anytime you have a pitcher who is this talented and underperforms, you wonder why. Could Katz do something different? Would a different pitching coach unlock something? I don’t know. But it’s just something to toss in the evidence hopper. If I were trying to mount a case against Katz, it’s one place I’d go.

mikeyb

Is Giolito a success for Katz? Unless my timeline is wrong, Giolito became really good before Katz arrived, was still really good his first year, and went back to not being great in Katz’s second year. If anything, I think I would probably count Giolito against Katz.

But similar to your first sentence, I think Katz is good enough, not elite. I wonder how long he’s under contract and if he will look to try to move to another organization that has a competent front office at some point.

HallofFrank

Well, Giolito gives him partial credit for his turnaround, but, to be fair, it was before Katz was hired. So maybe it shouldn’t count and we’ll call Giolito a wash.

bobsquad

Maybe we should say Katz is a success for Giolito, since it was his widely covered 2018-19 offseason mechanical change that really put Katz on the big league radar.

Last edited 11 months ago by bobsquad
Trooper Galactus

Giolito worked with Katz in the offseason before his breakout. It’s one of the reasons Katz was hired, IIRC.

mikeyb

Ah, I forgot about their offseason work prior to Katz getting to Chicago. I would definitely count that one as a positive for Katz then, especially if Giolito gives him credit.

FishSox

Katz worked with him off season before Katz came here. He is the guy that got Gio away from the long arm swing into the crooked arm delivery that he thrived with. You have to remember also, he was Gio’s HS coach so they have a deep history. . So, yeah, Gio is 100% a product of Katz’s changes that occurred in the offseason when Gio went from worst to best.

Last edited 11 months ago by FishSox
Shingos Cheeseburgers

I think the biggest hurdle to more fun at the park is cost. If you drive in and want to grab a beer and food in stadium before the game starts you’re close to $60 in the hole before the Sox make their first error in the top of the first. $60 is a lot of money and that absolutely is going to be on your mind while watching the game.

StockroomSnail

Getting constantly scammed doesn’t improve your mood?

Shingos Cheeseburgers

Also if you remove the names from that article you linked from 2012 it’s hauntingly prescient:

“I’m not one for making predictions, but when asked, I guessed the Sox would win 78 games. I thought they would be competitive, but the Sox were relying an awful lot on an unreliable assortment of talent, whether due to injuries (…), youth (…), or unlikely rebounds (…). I described the state of the roster with phrases like “skeleton of a contender” and “baseball factory outlet,” coming to the conclusion that a lack of depth would ultimately lead to their demise.”

FishSox

I want to know what happened to that Kopech changeup that Grandal raved about in ST.