If you look at Mark Buehrle’s running total in Hall of Fame voting through the lens of what will get him in, he’s light years away from Cooperstown.
If you look at that number through what will keep him on the ballot, he’s making the necessary progress.
Through 141 ballots on Ryan Thibodaux’s Hall of Fame tracker, Buehrle has gained eight votes from voters who hadn’t previously checked his name. That gives him 15, and while that’s 91 votes short of reaching the 75 percent needed for induction, his percentage of support (10.6 percent) is back to where it was in his first year (11 percent).
That’s reassuring considering he flirted with dropping below the 5 percent threshold needed to remain on the ballot in his second year (5.9). That was partially a reflection of a noisy ballot that featured newcomer David Ortiz alongside Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa and Curt Schilling in their last years of eligibility, but it also wouldn’t have surprised me if a lot of voters just wanted to give Buehrle one vote while they had the chance; a nod to a nice career they enjoyed witnessing.
As soon as the ballot softened, Buehrle’s case had its best chance of getting some needed sunlight. We’re a fortnight away from the Hall’s announcement on Jan. 24, and with about a third of the expected electorate accounted for, we’re seeing some evidence of photosynthesis.
Take the San Francisco Chronicle, which ran an article revealing the ballots of nine employees. Buehrle made the cut on three of them.
It wasn’t a surprise to see Buehrle on Christina Kahrl’s ballot, because she’s a Big Hall voter and she lived in Chicago during Buehrle’s run. But Buehrle also won a couple of converts from Steve Kroner and Susan Slusser. Both said they thought the most about Buehrle, with Kroner emphasizing the consistency that modern pitchers probably won’t be able to match, and Slusser filling in the style points:
I thought most about: Buehrle is a fun addition, but I did go back and forth on him. He’s borderline, absolutely, but few pitchers were as enjoyably brisk ever. Work fast, throw strikes, maximize your ability, those are the Buehrle hallmarks. Five All-Star Games, four Gold Gloves, a perfect game — those things mean Buehrle should at the very least stay on the ballot another year.
These minor victories are enough to offset some bruising turns, like Buehrle going 0-for-14 on The Athletic’s ballot reveal.
These baby steps are the whole goal at this point. The longer he stays on the ballot, the more impressive his workload looks. The more impressive his workload looks, the more public consideration he gets. The more public consideration he gets, the more he might have a shot to earn induction through a favorable committee draw down the line. It’s a long game, but Buehrle’s conditioned for going up and down at least six times on a reliable basis, and Game 2 of the 2005 ALCS says he’ll go to 10 if needed.
Unsubscribing from The Athletic immediately.
I did when the NYT bought them, and from the outside seems like it has gotten more bland since.
They still have some of the best writers out there.
Unfortunately, they also employ a couple of the worst.
I unsubscribed when they hired Jim Bowden.
Sluuser neglected, almost never shook off the catcher.
With pitchers being notorious ‘head cases”, I wonder how many of them would have altered their trajectory by removing that phase from their game and concentrating on throwing the best pitch possible that the catcher calls.
My son struggled with this at times. He much preferred a good catcher calling the game with his right to veto. At one college showcase a coach asked him why he kept throwing his curve and his answer was, that’s what the catcher kept calling. He didn’t know the catcher but thought his best chance of a good performance was not to worry about calling the game. That coach didn’t like the answer and told him that he’s in charge on the mound.
He wound up with a good catcher in college, who coincidentally wound up being the only person suspended (2 years from MLB) for the 2017 pitch stealing scandal.
I’ve thought about that too. It’s legitimately fascinating that MB just completely checked out when it came to one aspect of pitching that a lot of pitchers probably think too much about (choosing the pitch). Different strokes for different folks, although when you looks at Mark’s resume and remember that his best heater was maybe 90, it’s hard to argue with the results.
You’d think that managers would know who can handle it and who can’t. Baseball tends to be so hands off with coaching decisions like this, I don’t understand it. I.e, imho, LL can handle it, Kelly can’t. That may be a bad example because Kelly is so over the top opinionated, but you get the gist.
in other old friend pitching news cueto to marlins, 1 year 6 mil, 2024 option for 10.5 with 2.5 buyout…. that seems like really good value and something that I would have rather done then the clevinger deal ….
Segura and Cueto together cost the same as Clevinger alone next year…what an atrocious looking allocation of money that signing looks to be. So thats $12M for 4 WAR (Cueto&Segura) vs. $12M for 1.3 WAR (Clevinger).
If only Kim Ng were the Sox GM. She even has the required organizational ties… she interned with the Sox.
wouldnt get carried away on Ng, the solar and garcia deals look pretty bad , she seems to be value shopping a bit better this off season
I do think unlikely that Cueto repeats, if you look at his prior few seasons to last year. But Clevinger was hurt and not great last year either. At least Cueto is healthy. Regardless of Cueto vs Clevinger, not signing Segura for less than 10M is bleeping inexcusable.
I hope they draw under 1.5 million, or closer to 1. Ideally would be great if it was even less than that. Sox fans deserve better and should not support this nonsense. I have not seen, are the “sell the team” billboards actually up? I know they raised the money but have not seen an actual picture or heard if they were up. Not that they will achieve anything but it’s quite a statement when fans would rather pay money to fund a billboard chastising the owner than buy a ticket to see a mediocre product.
From this mornings Trib…
Chicago owners aren’t exactly known for their willingness to face the music. White Sox and Bulls Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf said last summer in an interview series on Chicago CEOs that explaining his teams’ decision making to fans isn’t necessary.
“In the beginning I thought it was very important to be always open and honest, to answer every question that was ever asked of you,” Reinsdorf said. “I now understand that you can’t do that, that the things we do, the decisions that we make, cannot be totally explained to the media and to the public. We just have to make our decisions and hope to God they work out.”
In other words, you can’t handle the truth.
This pretty much echo’s what I perceive as the majority sentiment here, where Jerry puts enough on the field to be .500 and hopes for lightning in a bottle.
He doesn’t need to explain. The motives behind all of his decisions, and his character are obvious. As are the results, which are fruits of the bad tree.
Ben Clemens of FG said on his chat that the Sox are his pick for team mostly likely to bomb out of the gate and go into the sell mode. I imagine Guaranteed Rate will be a ghost town if that ends up coming true.
The Sox play 17 of their first 29 games against playoff teams I think. They could certainly bomb out of the gate. They could be lucky to be within a few games of .500 by the end of April, realistically. Brutally tough start to their schedule, that’s for sure. Even if they were a lot better it would be tough.
Given how they play down to their competition, having a stronger schedule to start might work out in their favor.
I know what you mean, but somehow I don’t think a 4 game series in Houston to start, and early season series vs the Phillies, Jays, and Rays (twice) will work out in the Sox favor. No games vs KC/Det. Other teams they face will be Giants, O’s, Twins, Pirates. Pirates are the only easy games the whole first month. That’s just brutal.
11-18 or something by May 1 would not be out of the question. Maybe they’ll do a bit better than that. Or worse.
I was kinda just being snarky. The entire 2023 season is probably gonna suck and just be another seesaw around .500.
I mean, we have a winning record the past two years against the Rays. We are 6-7 against the Jays. Houston owns us but I’m already expecting us to go 1-3 in the series in Houston.
Ahhh…the wait and see when we face the weakest part of the schedule all over again.
I’m so conflicted by this…..
I want this 2023 team to win the division, but if things turn that direction the White Sox are well-positioned to retool without a full-on fire sale or long-term bottoming out.
Anderson, Jimenez, Giolito, and Lynn could all be of interest to contenders, and have right now a combined $100MM+ surplus value on BTV. That will obviously decrease by midseason, but would still be good for a substantial haul of prospects that could contribute towards the end of the Robert+Cease window.
I just don’t think Robert, Cease, Montgomery, Colas and Ramos is very close to a core of guys that you can build a championship team around. I know they’d add some to this if they traded Eloy, TA, Giolito and Lynn, but it still doesn’t feel like it’s likely to be enough, and the minor league system otherwise just seems so poor that they can’t expect much if anything else from it.
If they go into sell mode, IMO, they should go into sell mode — trading all the veterans whenever their apparent value is highest.
For example, if Eloy is injured again in the 1st half, but Robert is healthy and puts up 3-4 WAR by the trade deadline, then it should probably be Robert that gets traded at that point.
And pushing any championship window away another 4 years makes it all the more likely that JR and Co. will not be here for it.
It really depends on how this team does and what they would get in return as to who it makes sense to trade. If they look pretty bad by midseason, they could certainly look to trade Giolito, Grandal, Lynn, Kelly, or Diekman since all will be gone after this year. Perhaps TA, Graveman, or Moncada since they will be gone after next year, if they got a really good return. For this team to have any future whatsoever, they really need both Robert and Eloy to be healthy and productive. If either one isn’t, that would be 3 straight years of missing time, which would make either of them worth very little in a trade, and to this team.
And while it’s not important in comparison to his health, obviously not being able to trade and get something for Liam really hurts. He would have been one of their most valuable trade chips.
But my hope is that their core after 2024 will be Cease, Kopech, Crochet, Robert, Eloy, Vaughn, Beni, Colas, Montgomery, Ramos. That’s a potentially decent core, if Colas and Montgomery pan out. Plus whoever they can get for Giolito, Lynn, Grandal, TA, Graveman, Moncada, and Liam if he comes back. Gotta hope that Eloy and Robert turn a big corner this year, or they just don’t have much to work with. But if those two turn it around, even if the season goes south, that’s still a pretty good group potentially, with 110M+ coming off the books the next two years. As much as the Sox haven’t gotten any good free agents the past couple years, their offseason might be a little different with a payroll $100M lower. At least there would be a small chance they might sign SOMEBODY. Benintendi was a 5 year deal, maybe they learned something from all of the futility and wasted money, who knows.
I think I agree with pretty much all of that. To be clear, I expect them to be well above .500 near the all star break, so they won’t be sellers.
But if they’re really not good at all, a bunch of things have probably gone wrong. Maybe it’s a lot of things other than Robert and Jimenez (like a couple injured pitchers — maybe including Cease or Kopech — underperformance again from Grandal and Moncada, another black hole year at 2B, Vaughn doesn’t seem to have any sort of breakout, etc.). In that case, Robert and Jimenez might be among their only assets that would be worth real hauls in trades (multiple top 100 prospects, etc.).
I guess all I’m saying is if they end up being bad enough to sell at the deadline, I doubt any of the veterans should be considered untouchable.
I mean, we had injured/bad pitchers in the first half last year. Underperformance from Moncada and Grandal. 1B playing in the OF and giving away outs. A black hole at 2B. Eloy injured. All that and we still finished .500 on the season.
We appear poised to have honest to god outfielders in LF and RF this year. Eloy is DHing which should help keep him healthy but who the hell knows. We might not have a great shot at a championship but this team, right now, is better than what it ended the season as.
In my opinion, it’s going to take some serious worst case scenarios all hitting at once to put this team into firm “sell off” territory but I acknowledge I’m more optimistic than most and the Liam news isn’t starting the season off on a high note…
Yes, this is a good and underrated point. I don’t think many fans appreciate how much better the roster construction is this year. Even lateral moves in player quality could have an immensely positive impact of players are simply playing in their proper positions. By simply letting Abreu walk, signing Benintendi, and calling up Colas, effectively four positions are clicking into the right place.
I’ve been a proponent of signing another OF and starting Colas in AAA (and it’s not too late for that!). But one nice thing about Colas is that the offensive bar is so low because the defense is there. If he has even a .680 OPS, he’ll probably represent a significant increase in production from RF.
Re Colas: I feel like we fall into the “the new guy only has to not suck to be an improvement over last year” trap every year. Josh Harrison, Jon Jay, Nomar Mazzaro, and Jeff Keppinger have disabused me of that fantasy. Aiming for mediocrity is a losing strategy.
Sure, and that’s why (like I said) I want them to add another OF. But, there is a difference here: Colas isn’t a middling veteran hovering above replacement level. He’s a promising prospect with upside. I’m just not sure we should expect that upside in year one. I was merely pointing out that even his floor (ish) would be a breath of fresh air (that is: he actually plays OF).
I’m not sure why anyone thought Jon Jay and Nomar Mazara wouldn’t suck
Aiming for mediocrity is the only thing this ownership ever does. And they always hit it.
Why would Eloy get good prospects back? He’s a DH with poor plate discipline, making not insignificant money. He’s Mark Trumbo.
Well, no, he’s not Mark Trumbo. Trumbo’s career best wRC+ was 125 (age 30 season). At age 25, Eloy put up a 144 wRC+.
It’s fair to say that his value with limited if he struggles with injuries again. But the Trumbo comparison is way off. There’s not only shown ability here but untapped potential. And he’s only 26.
The last rebuild was perfectly positioned for a quick rebuild, they nailed the trades, and they still boffed the finish completely. Until the Triumvirate of Mediocrity is gone it’s just circling around to the same crappy conclusion.
Or….the perfect storm. It could happen!
Uh, what? That’s not right. You included Clevinger’s buyout in those numbers, but not for Cueto and Segura. Segura’s contract is also backloaded, so he might as well be making $7.5m/year (not including the buyout).
So the comparison is really this:
And that’s only for one year: Segura would have cost more if he signed for only one year. However you slice it, Segura & Cueto are out-earning Clevinger by a wide margin.
I wish the Sox had signed Segura (unless they have something larger up their sleeves), but I prefer Clevinger at $12m over Cueto at $8.5.
OK – with buyouts they are about within 1 Diekman of each other so it still seems pretty equivalent.
Uh… still no? Diekman is making $3.5m. You’d still be about $1.5m off. Go ahead—add another player!
While you’re at it, put Benintendi in there. By your math, he’s making less than Cueto alone in 2023.
I know the Sox fan mentality is to immediately jump to criticism of the Sox FO anytime the Sox—or any other team—make a move. But giving $12m to Clevinger and passing on $8.5m to Cueto is entirely reasonable.
OK, at this point you are just being pedantic.
Diekman has $1M buyout in addition to $3.5M and I said “about” and in baseball money $4.5M and $5M is for sure in the “about” range.
For the record, I endorse the use of “Diekmans” as a measure of spending.
Interning with the White Sox was probably all the info she needed to leave and never reconsider coming back. The White Sox have had an exodus of people leaving the front office the last few years, even before last year’s debacle.
I’d rather the 32 year old, 2 years removed from TJS bouncing back than a 36 year old finding enough gas again. Just personal preference. I am surprised that’s all Cueto got though.
The fact that Cueto ended up on the Marlins with a one-year deal leads me to believe that a lot of team’s scouts are skeptical he can replicate what he did here.
I would be more upset if he got a two-year deal with a contender as it would lead me to believe the Sox were going on the cheap.
I would have been happy to see the White Sox give Cueto this deal. The 5 man rotation looks more solid than other positions of need, but this team has to budget right now for about 20 starts to be soaked up by Martin and Lambert. And that’s assuming no concurrent injuries/COVID.
The headline here is that a team with already 6 legit starting pitchers and 4 excellent pitchng prospects went out and signed Cueto, anyway.
I guess that they just wanted to make their team better. Now, they can trade a pitcher to fill a different hole.
Perhaps, this is is a new 2023 concept that someone should inform the White Sox about.
Buehrle faced the minimum a record 3 times. That’s short term dominance.
Buehrle produced more outs than anyone from 01-15. That’s long term dominance.
Put the man in the hall.
Agreed, although regardless of what happens he’ll always be my favorite player.
Twins got correa 6 for 200…. yikes
Well hold on there. It’s pending a physical.
heyman says twins already cleared the ankle/leg issue… he is gonna be a twin
Glad I’m not a Twins fan. It boggles my mind that a team would give out such a high AAV to any one player for 6 years when, for the same amount of $ per year, you could have Dallas Keuchel, Joe Kelly, Leury Garcia, and Josh Harrison. All while retaining the flexibility to rinse and repeat with different Keuchels, Kellys, Garcias, and Harrisons multiple times over the lifespan of Correa’s deal.
Nice sarcasm, but it’s not like we can expect the Sox to compete with a team that has the financial resources of the Twins.
I mean, aren’t they concerned about the effect that sky high player salaries are going to have on profits?
Best comment I’ve read in a long time.
I can’t help but wonder what he’s thinking. The Mets obviously wanted him and only wanted to add language so that they wouldn’t have to pay him if he hurt his right leg specifically. Correa wanted guaranteed money every year for 12 years even if his leg prevented him from playing? That seems like childish arrogance and completely unreasonable to me, I can’t blame the Mets for telling him and Boras to F off.
Now instead he gets half the years, for a team with almost no chance of ever being in a World Series. I’ll include all AL Central teams in that category, although had the Sox landed Correa they would have had a better shot than anybody else.
3rd place is a very realistic possibility for the Sox this year.
It’s a 6 year guaranteed with 4 vesting options based on plate appearances.
I can’t imagine that he will not wind up with less money in the long run getting 1/2 the contract years. Dude has $50M in career earnings already, and he is (and Boras) bitching and moaning that he has to get paid guaranteed dollars even if he can’t play due to a leg that two teams of doctors know is a real risk. Talk about ego and entitlement. He must not have faith in his leg, either.
He’s not getting a ring now, either, that much is for sure.
He already has a ring.
Bingo – no need to chase a ring since he already has one. Just wanted to maximize his earnings at this stage.
Name another player that contract becomes voided if they get hurt. Talk about entitlement of the Mets to think he should be the only player in the league with that kind of language in his contract.
The Mets deal required a passed physical each year. That makes it a one year deal of guaranteed money. Why on earth would he ever sign that? He’d be better just signing a one year deal at that point instead of carrying all the risk and the team zero.
Re: Correa. My guess is that Hahn wanted to trade for Escobar but had to wait out the Correa saga. Now that Correa is a Twin, Escobar stays with the Mets.
(Insert minor league 2B name), your table is waiting!
Can Adam Haseley play 2b?
Jake Burger can!
He meant to say Andrew Vaughn.
Now the Twins offseason is net positive, adding Vazquez and Gallo without losing Correa. They were only 3 behind the Sox. I think a better chance of the Twins finishing ahead of the Sox than the Sox finishing ahead of Cleveland.
Fantastic odds on the Twins for you. I’d put down a lot on it:
Those are the odds on the Twins to win the Central. I never said the Twins would win the Central and I think it highly unlikely that they do. They were 14 behind the Guardians last year. I would bet zero that they win the Central.
I only think it might be a good bet that they finish ahead of the Sox, which means 2nd place. It would be more surprising to me if the Sox won the Central than if they finished 3rd, in other words. I think the Sox/Twins will battle for 2nd place. If the Twins were long odds to finish ahead of the Sox, I think that would make a great bet. I think about 50/50 chance.
You could achieve the same result by splitting money on the Twins and the Guardians. I think we all assume it will not be the Tigers or Royals, and putting money on both the Twins and Guardians would give you the benefit of the odds-makers’ major over-estimation of the Sox.
That’s honestly not a terrible idea, thanks.
The odds in your link did not reflect Correa. Fanduel and MGM now list the Guardians and Sox both at +150 to with the Central, and the Twins at +275. If for every 100 I bet I put 70 on the Guards and 30 on the Twins, I would win a net of 75 if the Guardians won, and do a bit better than break even if the Twins won. I’m not negatively biased enough to give the Sox no chance and call it free money, but I think with Liam out now their chances got even dimmer and your suggestion works pretty well. I’d probably just bet the Guardians and forget the Twins and take my chances. I might sign up for MGM or Fanduel, I have two betting accounts and neither has any MLB bets at this time.
Sox odds will improve when they announce the Josh Harrison reunion!
You’re welcome 🙂
I’m a little surprised that the Twins didn’t go for Cueto who might have been a godd pickup for them. Then again, I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a deal setup with the Marlins for one of their pitchers and that’s why they signed Cueto.
Brilliant move by Ng, because it takes the best remaining starting pitcher off the market and makes their surplus of starters even more valuable in trade.
I don’t know, I was told above that she’s no Rick Hahn.
I don’t know, she may be know Rick Hahn but they both where a slip.