Podcast: Latest White Sox Managerial Rumors
Record Date: 10/9/2022
Rundown:
- Thanks to Bob Nightengale, there’s a list of managerial candidates considered front runners for the White Sox opening. Are they narrowing the field too much?
- A deep dive into one managerial candidate with former St. Louis skipper Mike Shildt
- Is anyone on the White Sox “Untradeable?”
- Recapping the wild MLB postseason weekend. Is this a good format for MLB? What changes should they make for next year, and our picks to reach the Championship Series.
The time to trade Cease hasn’t presented itself. He would be off the table for me because trying to calculate this front office somehow being able to turn him into multiple contributing players that as a net make up for what they would lose is impossible. They havent come close to earning the right to expect them to be able to do that.
Vaughn is probably off the table only because the sox helped destroy his value by playing him out of position for 2 seasons and rushing him to the majors. Let him have a full season of 1 position, playing daily… and I think he takes off.
I absolutely hate the fact we have to take Nightengale seriously with everything he reports… just hate it.
I think Jim is right that, strictly speaking, no one should be off the table. That should be true of every player for every team. But it’s especially true of the White Sox, who need to solve several problems but can’t spend. If ascendant teams (like the Orioles or Blue Jays, for example) call about Cease, then the Sox should listen—especially if all their players are available, which I’d expect with Cease on the table.
The odds of a cease trade are 10000 to 1, yes everyone should listen to everyone but its a waste of time
Its hard to trade from a spot of weakness, the sox are already short a starting pitcher, let alone a premier starting pitcher, and the following year they potentially lose giolito and lynn making them 2 more spots short… you only trade a guy like cease in the event of a rebuild not in the event of a re-tool, if the sox plan is to get back to the post season in 2023 you need a guy like cease taking the ball game 1 , we’ve all seen the front line pitching already on display this post season
sox have a glut of dh/1b/corner OF types, they have some extra middle infielders in the minors, those are the likely tradable spots they will focus on
and as always the sox can spend, they choose to limit themselves but we all know that
Any spending by Sox might be in the form of Keuchel-like buyouts for Grandal…and maybe Leury, Kelly, Diekman, or Pollack
I’m actually pretty excited for the offseason action. This season was bad enough to force the hand of the FO to make significant changes, rather than force-fit some tweaks because we were “one or two players away from a championship”. If there is not going to be any FO changes, then job one is to hire a credible manager (Bruce Bochy?) who recognizes the winner mentality of real baseball players, not physical specimens that don’t have baseball instincts, and include him in the decision-making process.
The discussion about Mike Shildt mirrors my own feelings. I have no idea how to feel about him because his dismissal from St. Louis was pretty mysterious. I also thought he’d be a shoe in for either San Diego or the Mets, but he got neither which also has me wondering what else went on besides “philosophical differences”.
The article I saw was that the GM, Mozeliak, tried telling Shildt what to do. Not sure if that’s true or not but that’s what was said. It might explain why they hired Marmol.
I don’t mind that list of names but Maddon would have to be last resort.
There has been a lot of speculation on why Mike Shildt got fired. “Philosophical differences” isn’t really a satisfying answer even if it might be true. So it’s caused a lot of people to speculate on what happened behind the scenes.
Until today. VEB has acquired the audio tapes of how the firing went down, and we’ve posted the full audio below. This is exactly as it transpired. We did not make any edits to the material. I’ll just let the tape recordings speak for themselves.
John Mozeliak: “Okay, end of season review. First off, I want to congratulate you all on a great season. We made the playoffs for the third straight year. Haven’t had a losing record since 2007. And it’s truly a team effort, a collective group where every member is essential to the success of this ballclub. So let’s all give ourselves a round of applause for another successful season.”
(Everyone claps politely)
“First order of business: who to bring back. Free agency is approaching, and any potential free agents should be our top concern right now. So Mike, being the manager, and in day-to-day contact with the team, why don’t you get the ball rolling?”
“And we won’t address the players under contract for next year yet?”
“Yes, we’ll assume they’ll all come back, unless in a later discussion, we decide they may be expendable in a trade. Or as a candidate to get designed for assignment. For now, let’s focus on who to bring back.”
“Just making sure. Well, my absolute top priority is to bring back Justin Miller, let’s get that out of the way.”
“Who?”
“Justin Miller, our relief ace.”
“Justin… Miller. Not ringing any bells. But you know what, I’m prone to forgetting, lot of names to remember. Girsch, any thoughts on Justin Miller?”
Michael Girsch: “I’m not familiar with the name.”
“Okay, how about you Mike? Surely you’ve worked with him?”
Mike Maddux: “Justin Miller, Justin Miller… yeah I’ve never heard this name in connection with the Cardinals in my life.”
“Guys, am I crazy? Justin Miller. You know, one of our shutdown relievers?”
(Shildt looks around frantically. He hones in on bullpen coach, Bryan Eversgerd.)
“Bryan, back me up here. Justin Miller, one of our top priorities right?”
“Do you mean Andrew Miller?”
“NO. JUSTIN MILLER. DID YOU GUYS EVEN WATCH THIS SEASON? JUSTIN MILLER. Killer slider/fastball combo. Little on the old side, but he can keep this up for a few more years.”
Mo: “Okay Mike, give me a second let me pull him up on Fangraphs real quick. Oh. Okay he does exist… and he did play for the Cardinals in 2021. Huh?”
“I was starting to think I was in the Twilight Zone there guys. Whew. Alright, so top priority-”
“Now hold on. Justin Miller with the 6.16 ERA? The going to be 35-year-old in the middle of the season next year?”
“Well, I did say he was a bit on the old side”
“Him being on the old side is not the relevant part of what I said.”
“Okay he had a few bad outings. But he looked strong most of the year, and I think he can be the future closer.”
“The future closer?!!! He gave up five home runs in 19 innings. He had a higher FIP and xERA than his actual ERA.”
“Okay, his stats are bad. I won’t dispute that. But his stuff, my god. That’s future closer stuff right there.”
“Think I’m going to have to disagree with you on that one.”
“Okay fine, he won’t be a future closer, but we got to at least bring him back.”
“We might throw him a minor league deal, we’ll see how the rosters end up shaking up.”
“NO. HE NEEDS A MAJOR LEAGUE DEAL. HE’S IN HOT DEMAND GUYS. WE CAN’T LOSE HIM.”
“I think we can lose him and I don’t think there’s a current role in the bullpen for him.”
“THIS IS HORSESHIT! HOW CAN WE NOT BRING BACK JUSTIN MILLER?”
“Very easily, Mike. Can we move on to the next player?”
“NO, WE HAVE NOT FINISHED DISCUSSING JUSTIN MILLER”
“I think we better move on. We have many things to discuss today.”
“WE WILL NOT MOVE ON. I WANT TO HEAR YOU COMMIT TO JUSTIN MILLER RIGHT THIS MINUTE, MO!”
“I will not be doing that. Let’s be reasonable”
“DON’T TELL ME TO BE REASONABLE, YOU BOWTIE WEARING FUCK! ALL I ASK FOR IS ONE RELIEVER AND YOU’RE BRUSHING ME OFF.”
“Mike, let’s MOVE ON PLEASE. We can’t get this heated up about every fringe reliever we talk about?”
“FRINGE RELIEVER? YOU’RE CALLING JUSTIN MILLER A FRINGE RELIEVER”
“I mean I guess he’s more of a minor league reliever”
“MINOR LEAGUE RELIEVER?! MINOR LEAGUE? JUSTIN MILLER IS A MINOR LEAGUER RELIEVER??”
“… Yes?”
“HE’S WORKED HIS ASS OFF. HE’S ACCUMULATED 4 YEARS IN THE BIG LEAGUES SINCE 2014 AND HE KEEPS WORKING HIS ASS OFF EVEN THOUGH NO TEAM BELIEVES IN HIM. HE DEBUTED AT 27 AND KEEPS GETTING THE PINK SLIP AND KEEPS WORKING HIS ASS OFF-”
“This does not seem like great evidence to keep him”
“I WILL NOT LET THE CARDINALS BE ANOTHER ONE TO GIVE UP ON HIM”
“Well, we are. So, next player”
“OKAY, I DIDN’T WANT IT TO COME TO THIS. BUT NUTS ON THE TABLE. JUSTIN MILLER OR ME? THAT’S RIGHT. I’M PULLING THIS CARD”
“You’re pulling the him or me card for… Justin Miller? Are we sure this guy’s real? What’s happening?”
“HIM OR ME”
“I’m honestly convinced someone put a fake person on Fangraphs just to see if they could.”
(Shildt calmly sits down, takes a drink of his water, and speaks in a calm voice. Then he starts laughing maniacally.)
“I got you guys! I really got you. Oh I had you going so bad there. He’s not real. I had the computer guys put his name in there. I wanted to see if I got away with it. I actually had you convinced a Justin Miller pitched on the Cards this year.”
(Mo humorlessly responds)
“That was funny. Anyway, let’s move onto the next player. Mike, take over.”
“Okay, sorry couldn’t help myself. I probably took it too far. But you know me and my practical jokes. But I had to sell the joke. I’ve never seen you laugh so hard, Mo? Okay, in all seriousness, the top priority player we need to bring back – and I realize he’s in Memphis right now, but it’s honestly, I think we’re going to need an MLB deal or he’ll leave us.”
“Mike, we’re not bringing back Tyler Webb.”
(Shildt throws binder at Mozeliak)
“THIS IS HORSESHIT”
“STOP THROWING BINDERS AT ME. THIS IS THE TENTH TIME AND YOU’RE REALLY PUSHING YOUR LUCK.”
“I HAVE A LIMITLESS SUPPLY OF BINDERS TO THROW AT YOU AND I WILL NEVER STOP. NOW TAKE THOSE GLASSES OFF AND SHOVE THEM UP YOUR ASS.”
“Mike…”
“OH I’M SORRY DEWITT’S HAND IS ALREADY THERE, YOU PUPPET.”
“MIKE! We’re not giving Tyler Webb an MLB deal just because he’s your son. I mean we kept him way longer than we should have, let’s be real.”
“How di- HE’S NOT MY SON! We just bear a weirdly striking, purely coincidental resemblance to one another. We need to bring him back.”
“No.”
(Shildt, somehow with another binder in his hand, throws it at Mo again.”)
“Okay, that’s enough. You’re fired.”
And that folks, is the real story behind Mike Shildt getting fired.
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Hell, I don’t even know what to say to this. If it’s real then it explains a TON. Not doubting you but this seems very unbelievable. If it’s true then someone should tell Shildt that he needs help.
Who or what is VEB?
A Cease trade would tap into Rick Hahn’s one documented ability: trading stars at the peak of their value. Thinking about a Blue Jays team that saw Berrios struggle, I wonder if they’d give up a package of Gabriel Moreno, Nate Pearson, and Tucker Toman? Pearson is a hard-throwing giant who recently returned from injury and could be a fine reclamation project for Ethan Katz. The two hitters (who are at up-the-middle defensive positions) demonstrate more contact than most of the current Sox players do. Such a deal would get the team younger, cheaper, and also improve lineup flexibility.
Regarding the managerial candidates in the news, I suppose Ron Washington would be the one I’d want. He has demonstrated the ability to improve a team’s defense, and that is essential if most of this team returns. He’d also be a fun quote, and fun is going to be important for the fanbase as Jerry Reinsdorf has shown by retaining the same front office that he isn’t really serious about competing for a championship.