Guardians 10, White Sox 7 (11 innings): Cleveland takes tiebreaker

The White Sox threw everything they had at the Guardians.

The problem is that everything the White Sox have to throw isn’t good — like their left-handed options in the bullpen, or their three limited/compromised center fielders. They also have a lot of baggage from a season’s worth of underachieving, and a first-time manager who was thrust into the role because the past-his-prime manager was put on a PUP list.

They left it all on the field, including their unmentionables. It was bad, then it was good, then it was bad, then it was good, and then they should’ve been humiliated. The 11th-inning collapse effectively sealed the White Sox’s fate as baseball’s worst second-place team, barring some kind of spectacular 11th-hour development. The standings say the Sox are five back with 14 games to play, but it’s six because Cleveland secured the season series with this victory, and thus the tiebreaker.

The game should’ve turned in the sixth, when the White Sox finally struck against Aaron Civale after getting shut out for five innings. The Guardians gave them plenty of help. Elvis Andrus started the rally, and he helped matters further when he stole second — not just because he was safe, but because Terry Francona burned a challenge thinking the call could be overturned, and while Yoán Moncada backfilled first base with a walk to render the stolen base moot, the consequences of the review surfaced an inning later.

Anyway, Francona lifted Civale after the walk for Nick Sandlin, who lost the lead in two pitches. His first pitch grazed José Abreu’s arm to load the bases, and his next pitch ended up in center field via an Eloy Jiménez single that tied the game.

Sandlin almost escaped without further damage when he struck out Andrew Vaughn on three pitches, then got AJ Pollock to hit a firm grounder to second. The play developed slowly, forcing Amed Rosario to rush the turn in hopes of beating the hustling Pollock to first. Pollock won on two counts, as he forced a throwing error that brought home a second run on the play.

It gave the Sox a 3-1 lead, and Pollock can say that he made up for a costly second-inning misplay. He tripped over his own feet running down Andres Gimenez’s blooper down the line, turning a double into a triple, and Gimenez ended up scoring on a sac fly for the only run off Dylan Cease.

But the game really turned in the seventh, when Miguel Cairo made a pair of questionable decisions.

First, despite the game state lining up for Reynaldo López-Kendall Graveman-Liam Hendriks over the final three innings, he went to Jimmy Lambert. The phrase “greased tee” came to mind, as he couldn’t find the release point on his fastball and walked the first two batters he faced. He got Myles Straw to fly out to right, which advanced the runner to third and put runners on the corners for Steven Kwan.

Cairo then felt compelled to go to Aaron Bummer for the matchup, even though he’s not typically successful with inherited runners. Bummer put a first-pitch fastball over the heart of the plate, and Kwan lined a single to center, narrowing the lead to one. Rosario grounded out into a 3-6 fielder’s choice, but it probably would’ve been easier if Cairo had first base open. With runners on the corners, Cairo let Bummer pitch to José Ramírez, and while he got a grounder to the left side, it was perfectly placed — out of the reach of a diving Yoán Moncada, and just far enough into the hole that an Andrus jump-throw couldn’t get him in time.

The tying run crossed the plate, and then Josh Naylor hit another grounder to that hole on the left side. In a replay of the Sox’s only loss in the Detroit series, Rosario didn’t realize that Andrus stopped the ball before it rolled into left field and blew through the stop sign. Andrus’s throw home was better than the one he made at Comerica Park, but it was still on the first-base side of the plate. Seby Zavala made his best effort at a swipe tag, and while it wasn’t in time, it was good enough for Shane Livensparger to miss the call — and Cleveland burned its challenge, so the play couldn’t be reviewed.

Alas, another decision Cairo made hurt the Sox in their chance to reclaim the lead. He swapped out Vaughn for Adam Engel, even though his defensive replacement had a sizable chance of coming to the plate once more. Vaughn’s spot in the lineup actually came to the plate twice more. Engel struck out in the eighth, and Yasmani Grandal struck out in the 11th.

Maybe Lambert would’ve made sense if one of the more trusted relievers was shown to be unavailable, but López pitched a scoreless eighth, Liam Hendriks a scoreless ninth, and then Kendall Graveman for the 10th. The last one was another questionable call, because the presence of the Manfred Man makes a strikeout-oriented pitcher far more important, which is why you saw Cairo use López for the ninth and Hendriks for the 10th in the two games that went to extras in Detroit.

Graveman lived up to his name by digging a hole in the 10th — a flyout put a runner on third, an intentional walk to Ramírez put runners on the corners, and then a grooved fastball ended up in a Josh Naylor RBI single. Worse yet, Ramírez took third on it, and scored on an Oscar Gonzalez sac fly that made it a 5-3 game.

Terry Francona seemed better situated for the 10th with his closer Emmanuel Clase, but the Sox foiled those best-laid plans. Gavin Sheets pinch-hit a chopper over the head of Clase that put runners on the corners, and an Andrus fielder’s choice at second brought home one run.

Andrus once again pulled off some proactive baserunning during Yoán Moncada’s strikeout by stealing second, and José Abreu came through with a single to right center on a 1-2 count that tied the game via Clase’s fourth blown save of the year.

Had Cairo saved Hendriks for extras, he might’ve been in a position to get a second inning out him. Instead, he turned to Jake Diekman for the 11th, and Diekman fell apart. He got Luke Maile to pop out with runners on the corners, but the first of three stolen bases took the double play out of order, and then Myles Straw delivered a two-run double that ripped open the scap. Kwan singled home Straw for the decisive run, but then they aggressively ran into two more runs, with the last one scoring because Diekman once again failed to check a runner at second, and Moncada wasn’t at third to receive Zavala’s throw.

A Pollock homer off Bryan Shaw gave the Sox a decent 11th-inning showing on the line score, but the tying run never came to the plate. The game ended with Leury García, whom Cairo has been admirably resistant to playing, popping out behind second base.

The first six innings were far calmer by comparison. Civale lulled the Sox into a bunch of ordinary outs to the left side of the infield, and while Cease was physically incapable of throwing a fastball below a hitter’s clavicle, his slidered his way into six innings of one-run ball, even though his early pitch counts made four innings look aspirational.

Cease’s peripherals aren’t impressive — 6 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 3 BB, 3 K — but he lowered his ERA to 2.13 as he tried to scrounge up some Cy Young support to challenge Justin Verlander. Individual pursuits are about all the White Sox have left.

Bullet points:

*Josh Harrison had a tremendous night in the field, twice robbing Rosario with spectacular plays. First, he made a charging, barehanded dive-and-flip to first that would’ve been far more impressive had White Sox fans not had Tadahito Iguchi’s more impressive play etched into their memoreis. Then he showed incredible closing speed on Rosario’s flare to the right side, picking the ball off the turf with a diving catch, and Iguchi didn’t make that kind of play that well.

*Vaughn also maxed out his range with a nice running catch in right, so he didn’t give Cairo reason for an early defensive hook.

*White Sox pitchers issued seven walks (one intentional). White Sox hitters drew one walk while striking out 10 times.

*Moncada made a nice catch by reaching over the rail on a foul pop-up, and Zavala completed a SHOTHO. Outside of the second and 11th innings, the defense was there.

*Bummer and Diekman combined to give up six hits and a walk over 1⅔ innings.

Record: 76-72 | Box score | Statcast

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Jim Margalus
Jim Margalus

Writing about the White Sox for a 16th season, first here, then at South Side Sox, and now here again. Let’s talk curling.

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a-t

As far as nails in the coffin go, it certainly wasn’t a snoozer.

itaita

Obviously Cairo made a few questionable choices and hes not the long term manager, but i still think hes done a great job all things considered and i dont think the Sox even have a game with these stakes if TLR was there the whole time.

Can argue the best thing that could happen to the team for the future is them failing to make the playoffs. Them getting that “Oh we can turn it on whenever” mindset always fails in team sports.

Augusto Barojas

Cairo is unproven and would not be my top choice, but I’ll live with his mistakes because guys simply played with more motivation and energy. It was obvious, he gets better from their players. I’ll take anybody including Cairo over Tony. But really, the manager is just the easiest to fix and the least of their problems. This roster just isn’t good enough to do anything other than compete half heartedly in baseball’s worst division, the winner of which is going nowhere in October anyway.

calcetinesblancos

I always wonder why teams commit long term to green managers. Could we give Cairo a year to see how he does? I 100% believe that if he’d been at the helm all year we’d moonwalk to a division title, but I also admit that compared to Tony anyone would look like a baseball genius with a motivational speaker level of enthusiasm.

KaiserSouszay

I agree with Ozzie’s sentiments after the game, Cleveland is a fun team to watch. Being a Sox fan I know I shouldn’t but I’ll be pulling for them to win the AL.

calcetinesblancos

I think they also show the value of speed.

To Err is Herrmann

That was a painful loss after the hope raised by getting 2 runs off Clase. A disappointing collapse to mark one of the most disappointing losses of a disappointing season. But you have to admit we were beaten by a team playing amazing baseball, a team that continues to do things right and play clutch baseball. Cleveland is the better team this year.

To Err is Herrmann

At the same time, it is not possible to watch Diekman collapse without realizing that this was Rick Hahn’s one trade deadline acquisition. Cleveland is the better team, but that doesn’t mean the Sox did not spend two years shooting themselves in the foot. If there is a moment, an object lesson, that points out to the necessity of moving on from Hahn, that 5-run inning was it. If Jerry misses or dismisses that, nothing anyone will say can turn this franchise around.

Augusto Barojas

They need to move on from Jerry, not just Hahn. A new GM won’t be able to get the star quality player or two that is really what this team needs, with Jerry’s aversion to multi year contracts to free agents. People have said repeatedly, if Grandal is the biggest FA contract they give out, they are going nowhere. Winning the Central is the only thing this roster was designed to do. Just an utterly pitiful effort from this organization top to bottom since 2020.

ChiSoxND12

I think tEiH is simply pointing out the direction they should take as far as what’s feasible is concerned. I think a poll of Sox Machine readers might literally show 100% in favor of new ownership. But that’s simply not happening, at least not this coming offseason. So he’s mentioning the necessity to move on from Hahn.

charlie

No question.

HallofFrank

So, does the OPP launch tomorrow?

BenwithVen

Personally, I cannot wait for these.

hellotowel

Regarding the Cleveland baseball team: you do not, under any circumstances, “gotta hand it to them”

Shingos Cheeseburgers

‘im not owned! im not owned!!’, the White Sox continue to insist as they slowly shrink and transform into a has-been

OldMMJ87

I actually agree with this. Yea they look great against a team that plays first basemen in the corner outfield and seems to have a fundamental disagreement to the concept of holding on runners, but against a team that actually employs outfielders in the outfield and can attempt to limit a running game, the kind of team you might encounter in the playoffs, I don’t think Cleveland looks quite so impressive.

soxygen

I haven’t heard anyone argue that Cleveland is particularly good. The Guardians are probably no better than the 6th best team in the AL. However, Cleveland is young and plucky. The players generally execute well when doing baseball things, and they have the best manager in the league. So, you know, you gotta hand it to them.

Josh Nelson

I’m thinking the White Sox in this upcoming offseason should throw more money at the bullpen.

*Ducks*

texag10

We don’t want to commit more money to the bullpen since Crochet will be joining the team at some point which is basically like a top tier free agent signing. And we don’t want to sign a long term contract for RF because Colas is knocking on the door and we don’t want to block him. 2nd base is covered between Leury, Romy, and Mendick coming back from injury. So all we really need to do is re-sign Johnny (or better yet, just let Martin be the 5th starter) and stay healthy and we should be competitive. Easy peasy.

upnorthsox

I’m sure that’s exactly what Hahn is telling Jerry, it’s all there, I did my job. Next year will be different.

Shingos Cheeseburgers

And the White Sox franchise record playoff streak finally comes to an end. Which was your favorite playoff victory?

The first one? Or the second one?

huisj

If Leury doesn’t hit the homer in game 3 last year, does he get the three year contract and the excessive playing time? Does he bat third against Cleveland in April? Do we still end up here?

As Cirensica

What a wonderful Window. Years of tanking was fruitful.

Shingos Cheeseburgers

One of these decades they’ll finally catch up to the Marlins in terms of franchise series playoff victories.

DuckSnorting-CanofCorn

It’s so White Sox that the only move Hahn made at the trade deadline imploded to wrap up the season.

I’ll always be a fan, but this was the most apathetic viewing season on my part in years. Partially a consequence of having two young children, but mostly a consequence of the White Sox face planting the rebuild.

I dare say that Sox Machine and it’s community is the only thing ‘White Sox’ worth following.

Here’s to hoping for a better year in ’23.

Kevin

Josh and Jim, love the work you both do covering the good and bad of this franchise. Question for the group, how bad does the failed 2022 White Sox season actually hurt revenue and/or ownership? I’ve been frustrated with the Sox more times than I can count, but this year is something very different. For the first time I don’t want to support any content directly related to the franchise (I’ll always support soxmachine). Anyway feel the same way?

hellotowel

I wasn’t ready to totally cut things off, but I attended about half as many games this year as I did last year and don’t think I bought any new merchandise. That’s just anecdotal, but I get the feeling I’m not the only one.

On the other hand, as is the case with many major sports around the world, I’m not sure they care all that much about those things in the era of TV/streaming mega deals.

Last edited 2 months ago by hellotowel
soxfan

I’m between cable packages for a variety of reasons – every time I get close to signing up thinking I’ve found a deal, I see the $17.99 surcharge for the regional sports package, imagine how much of that goes to support the org, and decide I can do without cable for another couple of months.

So, yeah, I’m not just not going out of my way to attend games or buy merch, I’m actively assessing my value chain and deciding not to subsidize this circus any more.

Burke

I went to about the same number of games this year as last but I canceled my cable package earlier in the season in July. It’s expensive and I just didn’t think the team was worth it.

I think the bigger impact for me will be after this off season. If they don’t make changes, particularly at manager, that will signify to me that they really don’t care about the fan base and I won’t go to very many games if any, next year.

Unless they make some good moves I will also continue to do without the TV package, which I think is BS anyway. Games should be available free, or at least some of them. Especially for a team where the public pays for part of the stadium.

Last edited 2 months ago by Burke
hellotowel

Fully agreed about the need to have easier access to broadcasts – across all sports. I definitely listen to more Sox games on the radio than I watch on TV. It has been very nice having the Fire on WGN the last few years, so I can watch with an antenna.

soxygen

I did not buy and merch this year. I also did not attend any road series – 2020 was the only other year in recent memory that I did not see a series on the east coast.

hellotowel

Time to close the book on the baseball team owned by Jerry Reinsdorf and turn my attention to the basketball team . . . owned by Jerry Reinsdorf.

huisj

Being a Sox and Bulls fan sounds so dystopian at times.

Foulkelore

Adding Bears to that list doesn’t help us Chicago fans any either.

Joliet Orange Sox

I seem to post this every year since I think my situation is becoming rarer as time passes. I don’t really follow the NFL at all because when I grew up on the south side my dad and his brothers had been rabid Chicago Cardinals fans who hated the Bears as the north side team that played in Wrigley Field. When the Cardinals moved out of Chicago, they swore off the NFL except for rooting against Halas. It was hard as a kid to get into rooting only against something with nothing to root for.

I do root for the Bulls. Like many of us who grew up in the 60’s, the Bulls marketing was everywhere on the south side when the Bulls played in the International Ampitheatre before moving to the Chicago Stadium. Red Kerr was the first coach and was a south side guy who I think spoke to every Cub Scout group on the south side and gave out free tickets.

Greg Nix

At least your team’s not owned by Robert Sarver 😞

Augusto Barojas

Condolences to all who believed in this team. It may seem disappointing, but in perspective, beating Cleveland was not the goal of this rebuild! If they were in another division their playoff chances would have been over weeks ago. This team might win the Central next year, with a manager not named Tony and a couple good moves. But they are a long way away from being anything but a long shot in the playoffs. Maybe they could have gotten lucky enough to win a best of 3 series against a team like the Rays as underdogs. There is no way in hell they were going to beat an elite team in a longer series with awful defense and their hitting RHP issues.

They are a star player or two like Springer or Semien away from being able to play with the top teams with decent odds. They missed their opportunity to add guys like that in the FA market, and are too payroll constrained to do so now, most likely. If you waste the best two years of free agent opportunities and settle for the likes of Eaton, Kelly, etc, they reap what they sow. Sox fans deserve better. If their offseason is not smart, bold/expensive, and productive, there is no reason fans should spend their money – or time – following this joke of a franchise. I’m basically done with them unless they sign Judge or something really surprising in a positive way, the chances of which are probably nil. RIP the Hahn and Jerry rebuild. Time to move on.

asinwreck

The 2022 White Sox never acted like contenders. Why should they start now?

calcetinesblancos

They gave that game away, just like so many other games early in the season. Loved the clutch hit by Pito, but the pitching just handed the tribe the game.

Hulksmash

There probably isn’t a more appropriate way to end this miserable season than having it come down to the one thing Hahn financially invested and seeing it collapse.

Shakespeare couldn’t pen a better tragedy than the one Doofus Hahn just scripted.

As Cirensica

There are teams in the AL that are built to feast on the White Sox’s weaknesses like we saw last year with the Astros in the playoffs. This year’s Guardinas is another example of a team designed to exploit the White Sox weaknesses.

They rarely strikeout. They don’t chase. That translates into free runners. You have to throw strike at them.
They put the ball in play a lot. White Sox defense is bad. How many times you notice dribblers and weak contacts translating into hits? That’s what putting the ball in play a lot brings.
They have right hand pitching power that can throw breaking stuff. White Sox kryptonite.
They play good defense.
They are fast. Run the bases better.
They are healthy and athletic. Most of the key players with the Guardians appear to be always in 100% health. They play hard. Run hard. They can field. Catch the ball.
And lastly, they have one of the best managers in baseball while the White Sox had an old time greatest but out of touch manager doing a lot of damage, and a rookie.

The Guardians is a flawed team. They are slappers. They don’t hit the ball particularly hard, but it is the Anti-White Sox team.

BenwithVen

I think the thing that really sticks out to me this season is how absolutely passive this team and FO were. Completely sitting on their hands hoping that the talent would eventually take over. Awful defense, awful offense, bad fundamentals etc. Nothing except token excerpts about “flipping the switch” or “keep doing what we’re doing” even though what they were doing wasn’t working.

BillyKochFanClub

What’s infuriating is the years and years of passive off seasons and trade deadlines going back to Hahn holding onto Shark at the deadline in 2015 and hearing how they were in on so many players but they just couldn’t convert, he’s just as disappointed as we are, and enjoy Jake Diekman.

Those words hold no weight when we hear them almost every offseason and at almost every deadline.

ForsterFTOG

In this horse crap division, the Sox spent zero days in first place after the middle of April.

Right Size Wrong Shape

I know this comment section today is more of an elegy, but I did have a question about the game. When Ramirez advanced to third in extras, it seemed really clear to me that Moncada tagged him before he reached the bag. Did anyone else see it that way? I didn’t hear the announcers really talk about it, Cairo didn’t ask them to review it and I don’t think Jim mentioned it above. It ended up being a huge play because it led to Cleveland’s 5th run. I dunno, maybe my eyes were blurry because it was late.

To Err is Herrmann

On the replay it looked to me that Ramirez touched the base before the tag. He got in just under the tag. Very close.

MrStealYoBase

Well, one team has refused to give away games all season, doesn’t make many mistakes, and has a more complete and cohesive roster. Is it any wonder that team is going to walk away with the division?

Remind me which of these teams has the youngest roster in baseball and didn’t actively try to improve at all in the offseason, and which is the team that was all-in with a $190M payroll and a group of seasoned veterans after years of tanking?

Last edited 2 months ago by MrStealYoBase
texag10

Cleveland has definitely given up on games before they were even played. Do you not remember the makeup game last week? And its okay to take a game off so long as you are strategic about it. TLR gave up on at least one game per week it felt like.

MrStealYoBase

By “give away” I mean “make stupid mistakes and provide extra chances for the other team to win in games you should win easily”. Like the Sox did on opening day, the Naylor game, the Os series, etc. etc.

Cleveland has definitely been on the end of blowouts where they throw the towel in. What team hasn’t? But in close games where they have a reasonable chance they’ve been nails all year.

dwjm3

I went to bed when Cleveland tied the game as I figured the end was nigh.

The mediocrity under Jerry is to the point where I don’t even get angry anymore, I simply look forward to a day when the team has new ownership.

OldMMJ87

I’m surprised at how upset I am after last night’s loss. I really wish I could just stop caring about this franchise because it’s clear the franchise does not care about me or any of its fans/customers. I really wish I felt that this would all change and action would be taken to improve the product on the field, but I doubt that will happen.

Marty34

Fresh start is desperately needed. Hahn, TLR, and Anderson have to go.

dwjm3

hahahahah

Joliet Orange Sox

Anderson???

Marty34

Yes, Anderson. Can’t ignore the mountain of evidence that he has entered his decline phase.

jorgefabregas

Mountains of evidence = a couple of months of bad play and two injuries?

Marty34

Age and injury history first and foremost.

gibby32

Marty has been on Anderson forever. One might—might—be able to make the case, but when he identifies only three people with the team that need to go—-and only one player—–and that player is Anderson, he has no credibility. Just ignore him.

Marty34

Anderson was singled out because he is the (core) player that is the most difficult to make a case for keeping.

upnorthsox

I love him but IMO it’s Jose who’s the hardest to make a case for, primarily because you have to actively do something to keep him. Grandal is right behind him.

Marty34

He’s not under contract next year and at his age I don’t consider him part of the core.

texag10

Even then, he’s still been worth 2 fWAR in 79 games.

As Cirensica

What a bum

Marty34

They will get something of value in return for him then, He’d generate a ton of interest in the trade market given that 2 fWAR he posted.

vince

The 2022 White Sox ended like they lived: wasting everyone’s time

GrinnellSteve

I ain’t sayin’ you treated me unkind
You could have done better but I don’t mind
You just kinda wasted my precious time
But don’t think twice, it’s all right

As Cirensica

And Dylan is from Minnesota…pft.

ChiSoxND12

To address some of the talk about what the Guardians do well: they’re 26th in walks, and while they certainly don’t strike out (fewest in MLB), it doesn’t really translate into free passes. In other words, they do “chase” to an extent, considering they put everything in play yet don’t walk a lot. Also, their defense isn’t as good as some seem to think it is. I think maybe they just get that rep when comparing to Sox’ D

MrStealYoBase

The Guardians were 29th in runs scored in the month of September going into last night. The offense isn’t good.

Where they shine is 1. Not making mistakes that make their pitchers work harder/forfeit chances on the base paths 2. Having good pitching with a lethal bullpen. It’s a really difficult formula to make work but when it works you get the 2012-16 Orioles or the 2014-15 Royals or the 2018-21 Brewers: teams that play much better than the sum of their parts.

roke1960

In the game that ended the White Sox hopes, let’s see how Hahn’s big 2022 pickups did. Graveman, 2 runs, Diekman, 5 runs, Kelly, nowhere to be found. What an indictment of Hahn’s ineptitude. And what a fitting way to end- the $16.5 million man Leury popping out. The best news- they’re all under contract for next year. There is no way Hahn should still have his job after October 7.

Augusto Barojas

This team is a hopeless case until there is an ownership change, really. Replace Hahn and Tony, but who will they get for those two jobs? Even good people won’t fix Jerry’s aversion to signing top tier FA’s like Springer that could have made this team really good.

jorgefabregas

Kelly is on family medical leave. He has not been good this season, but it’s unfair to ding him for missing a few days for that.

As Cirensica

I just typed the same thing without realizing you posted the same.

roke1960

Sorry, I forgot about that. But he has been close to useless this year.

As Cirensica

You can’t single out Kelly. He has a family emergency. That’s out of Hahn’s control.

upnorthsox

Did he really?

jorgefabregas

If he didn’t and it was roster manipulation by the team to bring Martin up, that’s on them, not him.

metasox

Banks took Kelly’s spot

upnorthsox

Oh no doubt, wasn’t blaming him but my manipulation antenna was going off when I heard about it.

Last edited 2 months ago by upnorthsox
As Cirensica

I really don’t think the White Sox will lie about that.

kingkellly

The front office and the manager have more than justified their dismissal. But the lions share of the blame has to go to the players themselves. So many of them were terrible, some in ways its hard to have much optimism about them going forward.

What really bothers me though is the players themselves. Moncada has turned into Yolmer Sanchez, Grandal is almost unrosterable, Anderson turned into a singles hitter who plays a terrible shortstop, Giolito may be toast, Robert imitated JB Schuck for half a season and Jimenez, while excellent when he did play, continues to do an impression of Mr. Glass.

Those guys have to be much better if this iteration of the Sox is ever to contend for a title. Robert, at least, I feel confident will bounce back once he’s allowed to heal. The others, not so much. Factor in worries about Cease being able to continue to throw that slider with no arm issues , Lynn getting another year older, Cueto a free agent, a monstrosity of a bullpen that sucked up way too much of the teams resources and I get depressed very easily.

soxfan

You’re not wrong, but the org is responsible for a lot of the player shortcomings as well.

Grandal was forced to play when he wasn’t healthy and he’s not hitting RHP well. So if he was 1) allowed to rest/heal and 2) paired with a LH backup rather than Savala taking ABs against lefties his numbers would be better.

Robert absolutely should’ve been put on the IL over the last month or so instead of limping along.

Jimenez is showing his superstar bat but was forced to play the OF (and risk injury) because of the misallocation of resources.

The list goes on. This team is the like the opposite of those “Moneyball” islands of misfit toys. They all have a role to play and are good to great talents, but have almost across the board been tragically misused.

To Err is Herrmann

“Jerryball” is going to be a tough movie to pitch in Hollywood,

metasox

Sounds like a Mel Brooks effort

Foulkelore

“Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is the 2022 White Sox.”

soxygen

The problems with Grandal are that he has bad knees, plays a position that requires squatting, isn’t an effective power hitter when his knees aren’t healthy, and even when healthy he is among the slowest players in baseball thereby negating the value of any walk or single.

The way to keep him healthy is not to play him at catcher. If he doesn’t play catcher then he might at least be able to hit for some power. There is lot of competition for at bats at the other positions he can play (1B and DH), and unfortunately the Sox traded a capable defensive (and rare left handed hitting) catcher for Jake Diekman even though the org lacks depth at catcher.

Last edited 2 months ago by soxygen
LamarHoyt_oncrack

It was a near certainty that this season was going to be a turd the moment they signed Harrison and Kelly. Time to flush it.

ParisSox

Came for the recap. Stayed for the obituary

Augusto Barojas

Lost in the morgue of Sox talk was Aaron Judge hitting his 60th last night in under 150 games. He should easily get 61 in less games than 154, which would break Ruth’s record truly. I can’t give props to Sosa, Bonds, Mac because of the juice, so to me Judge is the new single season HR champ if he gets #61 in the next 6 games. What a year for that young man, impressive.

Kelly Wunsch N' Munch

Lol!!!

chipporter
  1. Dylan Cease has yet to show up and be Dominant Dylan in any meaningful game, so until he can do that, let’s stop thinking he’s an ace. He hasn’t shown the ability to handle pressure.
  2. It’s emblematic of this years team that Leury made the last out in the most desperate game of the season.
  3. Anyone who puts Jake Diekmann into a meaningful game this year is accepting loss as the greater probability, regardless of other horrible options.
  4. Elvis Andrus makes me smile.
Marty34

No good reason though why he wasn’t out there in the 7rh.

chipporter

While I agree that he’s a good pitcher, and that being able to “find a way” when not having your best stuff, can be an admirable trait,my point is that, he has yet to “have his best stuff”, in those pressure situations. This seems to be his most highly consistent trait.

Marty34

Cease has to start the 7th in a game this crucial.

Right Size Wrong Shape

Cease gave up 1 ER in 6 innings, and even that wouldn’t have happened with a good outfield. This without his best stuff. How is that not handling pressure? Get a clue.

chipporter

Stop being a jerk off and act like an adult, there’s no cause for you call me clueless, it’s juvinile.

Here’s my clue, he never has his “best stuff” when facing the high pressure situations, which was my point. 90+ pitches in the 5th with multiple walks is not rising to the occasion. This is his M.O. when facing pressure. That’s not the Cy Young candidate that shows up in the non pressure situations.

Last edited 2 months ago by chipporter
Right Size Wrong Shape

Nice mouth.

chipporter

If the shoe fits

I told you once before that you should never talk to someone on the internet differently than you would in person. I doubt you would call me clueless to my face but I would absolutely call you out as a jerk off if you did, becuase anyone who talks to another like that without provocation, is.

Last edited 2 months ago by chipporter
Right Size Wrong Shape

Yeah….I read your explanation the first time, but I’m still not sure how you think that reflects well on you. You brag about how in real life you walk around telling people to F off and calling them j***-offs and you think that makes you a good person?

chipporter

You want to lecture me about behavior and language while telling me to “get a clue”? The word, hypocrite, jumps to mind.

Obviously, behaving like an adult is beyond your capabilities so expecting you to recognize your overstepping isn’t in the cards either.

I’ll just ignore any thoughts from your morality police mind in the future.

Last edited 2 months ago by chipporter
As Cirensica

This sounds close to those in the “Kershaw was bad because he couldn’t pitch well in the post season” bandwagon. It is not a good take. The White Sox hitters are constantly forcing pitchers to be almost perfect. Any pitcher allowing 1 run in 6 innings should win more often than not.

Last edited 2 months ago by As Cirensica
Marty34

Boras tells the Sox when Cease has had enough. There’s no other logical explanation why he was taken out

a-t

He had thrown 107 pitches. It’s exceedingly rare for a SP these days to go much beyond that mark by any manager. The exceptions are in exceedingly dominant and efficient starts, usually for potential no-nos or perfectos. This was not that. No-brainer to take him out after 6 with that pitch count and a fully rested bullpen.

The question isn’t why Cease didn’t start the 7th. It’s why Lopez didn’t start the 7th.

Marty34

No one is asking Boras to ;et him throw 130 pitches in a random game.

roke1960

That’s just a wrong take. Cease battled his ass off for 6 innings and made big pitches when he needed to. That’s an ace.
I too found it curious that Rey didn’t start the 7th

Last edited 2 months ago by roke1960
Marty34

What is the downside of letting Cease go back out there for the 7th in a game they have to win?

roke1960

Well, if that’s the case, let’s just let everyone throw 150 pitches like in the old days. The pitchers now are used to throwing 90-100 pitches in a game. I don’t like that, but that’s just the reality of it. Cease has NEVER shown he can go out and throw 125 pitches in a game. Plus we had a rested bullpen. I would have thought Rey would be the best pitcher to throw the 7th.

Marty34

Regular season games vary in importance. Cairo, Katz, Ceae, owed it to the rest of the team for Cease to start the 7th. The clubhouse dysfunction is because their best players put their own interests ahead of the team’s. It’s a culture that Hahn has fostered his entire tenure.

chipporter

Not really, because I never said he was bad or couldn’t win. It’s just that in games without pressure he’s a CY candidate, in games with pressure, he’s never had the same command or sharpness. The sample size is growing and I can’t find an exception to this “rule”. Run support from the offense doesn’t figure in to my observation.