Trades, prospect lists reveal White Sox’s need for farm depth

CHICAGO, IL - SEPTEMBER 26: Chicago White Sox pitcher Garrett Crochet (45) gets set to throw during a Major League Baseball game between the Chicago White Sox and Chicago Cubs on September 26, 2020, at Guaranteed Rate Field, Chicago, IL.(Photo by Nick Wosika/Icon Sportswire)

For the third time this winter, the Padres made a move that might make White Sox fans envious. After acquiring Blake Snell from the Rays and Yu Darvish from the Cubs, the Padres have now rebuilt a majority of their rotation via trade. This one acquired Joe Musgrove in a three-way with the Pirates and Mets.

Musgrove’s name had come up a few times, both during the Offseason Plan Project and in P.O. Sox, before and after his stuff was praised by a new Baseball Savant tool charting spin axis.

The details:

The Sox sorta have a version of Lucchesi in Reynaldo López, a previously durable starter whose performance has slid backward, but those kinds of pitchers are truly an eye-of-beholder situation, and Lucchesi’s a lefty. The Sox don’t have the equivalent of Head, a third-round prep center fielder who immediately performed in rookie ball in 2019. Likewise, while they have found a couple of international arms who made promising pro debuts at the rookie levels over the last couple of years, none are as advanced as Cruz.

Add it up, and the Padres managed to acquire two Cy Young presences and an analytical darling this winter. What’s remarkable is that they’ve done it all while touching only one top-100 prospect. That was Luis Patiño, whom the Padres sent to Tampa Bay in the Snell deal.

* * * * * * * * *

Baseball America was in a position to review the top-100 statuses of prospects involved in the deal, because it just posted its 2021 list on Monday. The White Sox placed four on the list, and they’re the four that usually end up on lists like these.

There are a couple of concerning elements, starting with the idea that all four players could graduate off the list by midseason. Maybe two of them are replaced by Jared Kelley and Yoelqui Céspedes if they start their pro/stateside debuts on the right foot, but meanwhile, the rest of the division is running even or better in terms of prospect depth.

Not all prospects are alike. It’s a lot easier to visualize the contributions from the White Sox’s farm stars than Kansas City’s at this point, and those prospects would be joining a 26-man roster with many recent top-100 graduates.

It’s just that the lack of another wave of prospects after this one makes it imperative for the White Sox to smash the window now, especially if the Indians are dealing from the top and the Twins are hesitating putting another foot forward. Success this year increases buying power for success in future years, and the Sox may need to buy themselves their next couple batches of additional wins until they get better at making prospect out of guys outside the top five.

(Photo by Nick Wosika/Icon Sportswire)

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mikeschach

Schooled by the Padres in building prospect depth and acquiring pitchers.
Schooled by the Mets in firing recently hired management over serious transgressions.

texag10

Had this conversation with a friend this morning. The Padres only really have 3 players on their team that can really be considered homegrown at this point: Tatis, Lamet, and Javy Guerra. They even think so much of Lamet that they went and acquired 4 new starting pitchers. The reason their farm system is considered so good is because they can’t/won’t graduate anyone on that list to the majors. And something mentioned on the White Sox subreddit, a lot of their prospect depth came from one giant splash in the international free agent market that is no longer repeatable. They’ve put together a good team but is it really something that they can sustain?

Eagle Bones

I think the better question is, why aren’t the Sox trying to replicate some of what they are doing? Like you said, the changes in the international system have closed the avenue to those big blowout signing periods, but their targeting of young, up-the-middle athletes (both internationally and domestically) and creativity with the draft board / pool are two things that seem conducive to building strong system depth that the Sox either don’t seem to have an appetite for or lack the ability to implement.

texag10

I don’t know how much they are actually doing better than the Sox right now though. Go look at their top 30 prospects and most of them were acquired in 2018 or earlier. Their most recent draft pick to be in that list is CJ Abrams who is still in A ball. They haven’t really added any new talent to their farm system or if they did, it went out in the recent trades. I’m not saying we are actually good at acquiring talent but I don’t necessarily think the Padres are good at it right now either.

Eagle Bones

Which list are you looking at? Abrams was 2019, there has been another draft class since then. I’m not saying they should just copy the Padres because they’re doing everything right and they’re the greatest at building a farm system, but there are examples of things they are doing (mentioned a couple above) that I think could help the Sox.

As Cirensica

Let’s not forget that not until last year, the San Diego Padres last playoff appearance was in 2006…so of course they have amassed a huge farm. They had 13 years to do so.

Eagle Bones

May want to check the Sox playoff record…

texag10

I’m using the Fangraphs Roster Resource.

Eagle Bones

Not sure if this link will work, but try this:

https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2020-in-season-prospect-list/summary?sort=-1,1&type=0&team=sdp

RosterResource is great for certain things, but Longenhagen’s “BOARD” is much better for prospects.

jhomeslice

What the Padres have done is acquire core pieces that will be with them the next 3 years (Musgrove only 2). They are taking risks. The Sox have not done this. In Dunning, the Sox gave up a better prospect for 1 year of Lynn than the Padres did to get 3 years of Darvish. That is because, since Darvish had a much bigger contract, he cost less in a trade… that’s how trades are working nowadays. If the Sox were willing to take on payroll, they could probably have had Darvish, arguably better than Lynn, for 3 years and perhaps without giving up Dunning. Even giving up Dunning would be ok for 3 years of a starter like Darvish. The way baseball works, a teams success or whether they come up short may depend largely on willingness to spend. Padres now 5th in payroll, Sox 13th. I don’t expect the Sox to get that high, but they probably need to do better then 13th if winning a World Series is truly the goal. I think Padres are the most likely team in MLB to win at least 1 World Series in the next 3 years, because they have set themselves up to succeed – in a much more sustained fashion than the Sox have. The Padres have Clevinger coming back at the start of 2022, making them even better next year.

The Sox on the other hand are set to be better for 2021 only, but they will be looking for a starting pitcher and rightfielder again after the season. I think many Sox fans, myself included, expected better, much more along the lines of what the Padres are doing in getting a core piece or two for multiple years. Preferably via free agency, not parting with their best prospects. Clearly it is not necessary to trade Vaughn, Kopech, or Crochet in order to get good players, if they are willing to take salary. Hendricks was not what I had in mind for their idea of spending. Colome was great the past 2 years, only blew 4 games. Hendricks is much better than them not signing a closer, but he does not address a 2020 weakness. He is not likely to change anything year over year, closer had nothing to do with why they did not win last year. Their sub-.500 record vs right handed pitching was a much more glaring weakness, and Eaton is hardly an answer. A healthy Moncada should help though.

They had almost 50M coming off the books with EE, Mazara, McCann, Colome, etc. This offseason hardly qualifies as “the money will be spent”, and I am not impressed by what they have done. It seems 2021 may be their best chance to win of the entire rebuild unless they land another good starter like Lynn again next winter, along with another RF. Having said that, I think it is obvious that their improvements along with the Twins losing Rosario and possibly Cruz, make the Sox almost a shoe-in to win the Central in 2021. Only injuries should be able to get in the way of that. But beyond that, they just seem to be falling way short of “all-in” to me. Can only hope we do not wind up watching other teams the last part of October because of that.

Trooper Galactus

I think the only reason the White Sox are 13th in payroll right now is because there’s, like, a hundred free agents still unsigned. As other teams sitting 14th-20th start filling out their rosters, I wouldn’t be surprised if they wind up in the back half of the league again.

Oddvark

I think the White Sox have a pretty good core in place for the next 3 seasons. Considering only players currently on the 40-man roster who have some MLB service time (or have a 60FV grade on FanGraphs), they have control over the following players through at least 2024:

C: Grandal
1B: Vaughn (thru 2026)
2B: Madrigal (2026)
SS: Anderson (option 2024)
3B: Moncada (option 2025)
LF: Jimenez (option 2026)
CF: Robert (option 2027)
RF:
DH: [Mercedes] (2026)
C2: [Collins] (2026)
IF: [Mendick] (2025)
OF: Engel
UT:
SP1: Giolito
SP2: Keuchel (option)
SP3: Kopech (2025)
SP4: Cease (2025)
SP5: Crochet (2026)
CL: Hendriks (2024)
SU: Bummer (option 2026)
SU: Heuer (2025)
MR: Fry
MR: Foster (2026)
MR: Cordero (2025)
MR: Burdi (2026)
LR: [Lopez]

Not including: Stiever, Lambert, Flores, Ruiz, Luis Gonzalez, or Zavala

Yeah, we definitely could use some bench upgrades, it’s doubtful that Mercedes will be our long-term solution at DH, we’ll probably cut loose Lopez by then, bullpens are notoriously unstable across the league, and I’m counting on unproven players like Vaughn, Kopech, Crochet, and Burdi to succeed.

But that’s a pretty solid core, and if Abreu is still producing he should be easy to re-sign for DH in 2024, along with plenty of accessible middle/long relief replacement options available every year, leaving the only glaring need in the starting line-up for the next 3 years being RF. That doesn’t speak to depth at all, and injuries/underperformance are always a risk, but I feel like the Sox are in a way better place regarding their long-term core than just about any other team in baseball.

And while I would have loved for them to have signed Springer, none of the other options on the FA agent markets were great long-term fits, and I don’t think they should have necessarily signed one just so they could lock someone into the spot for the next few years. My dream remains signing Conforto next offseason, even if I know the chance of that happening are slim to none.

Trooper Galactus

Relying on three of those starting pitchers to pan out well while simultaneously trusting Keuchel to be worth his option year (never mind the White Sox being willing to pay for it in the first place) seems a bit over-optimistic. Also, the RF hole is absolutely preposterous at this point.

Oddvark

I gave your comment a +1 because it was perfect.

Sophist

And then there’s Kelley

Trooper Galactus

Love Kelley, but the volatility of HS pitching prospects is absurdly high, and from what I understand he’s kinda maxed out physically. But if he can stay healthy, what’s there right now seems like a legit middle of the rotation option.

asinwreck

The Mets wish picking up Lucchesi was their primary contribution to this news cycle, though, unlike the White Sox with the recidivist drunk driver, they have fired the employee.

tommytwonines

There’s a lot of “meh” after those first four guys on the Sox prospect list. After they graduate, where does this farm system rank? Gotta be bottom third if not lower, and there’s little reason for draft optimism (although international signings looking up).

joewho112

Which is why it’s so infuriating that they aren’t more active with filling holes in free agency. They don’t have a stable of decent prospects that they can use at the trade deadline to fill holes. They don’t have a stable of MLB ready players to fill those holes. Free agency is the only opportunity to fill in holes and secure some depth, and they are choosing to stop short.

texag10

The two biggest holes on the team right now are DH and SP. An argument can be made that the front office feels like they have MLB ready players to fill those holes. Vaughn can split time at DH and 1B with Abreu and we have Cease/Lopez penciled in as the 4/5 with Kopech/Stiever/Lambert at AAA waiting for a shot. I think we all agree it’s not a good plan but that appears to be the plan as of right now.

Eagle Bones

There’s a pretty good argument to be made that RF was the biggest need of all and they still haven’t filled it.

joewho112

If they had enough prospect depth, rolling with C- solution as Plan A is more palatable because Plan B can be making a trade during the season. If any of Eaton, Cease, Kopech, Vaughn or Madrigal don’t work out, there is no good Plan B because the Sox don’t have depth to replace them internally or to trade from.

Eagle Bones

They could probably swing a trade (though it wouldn’t be easy). The problem is it’s going to hurt their depth badly because they have none.

jhomeslice

Eagle B well said. Their sub-.500 record vs righties was not helped by Hendricks, Lynn, or Eaton. To be fair (and optimistic), Moncada at full strength should help, along with better DH production. No matter who they put at DH, should be improvement over 2020. But Eaton was not a player to get for a team in the prime years of their rebuild, period.

jhomeslice

Vaughn might be close to MLB ready but has had very little minor league experience. What if he started at AAA, and played say 53 games, and hit .310 with 17 homers, and 62 rbi’s. I’m sure Sox fans would be like “hell yeah, bring him up!”. Well, they have a guy who put up those numbers in AAA in 2019, Yermin Mercedes. Those numbers are spectacular on every level, and he even takes walks, too. They were better than what Luis Robert put up the same year. Now it’s not a slam dunk that it translates to MLB success, but he is worth a shot, and it would be a shame to waste a guy with the kind of potential those numbers suggest. He would have been better than Encarnacion last year, clearly, and we should already have an idea what he can do. But he is rarely mentioned as a DH candidate, and I think it is a shame. I suspect he might do very well in that role, it would cost them nothing, and hope we get a chance to find out.

Trooper Galactus

It’s too bad they didn’t have room at DH for maybe a month or so in 2020 to give Yermin an extended look.

jhomeslice

They did have room at DH, Renteria insisted on playing Encarnacion the whole season no matter how terrible he was! Could have played Yermin any time after the middle of August when it was obviously how bad EE was.

Trooper Galactus

Sorry, should have used sarcasm font. That’s what I was getting at.

Eagle Bones

This is what’s referred to as “scouting the statline” and its not a good way to go about assessing players.

Trooper Galactus

Whose stat line are you referring to; Encarnacion’s or Mercedes’s? Because it was pretty clear even beyond the stat line that Edwin was toast. As for Mercedes, yeah, he has a hyper-aggressive approach that could very well be exploited, but it would have been worth their time to find that out rather than let EE play out the string.

Eagle Bones

Sorry this was in reference to him saying Mercedes should be given a shot because of his AAA stat line.

Trooper Galactus

I just wish he had more than one PA in 2020 to judge how much of a shot he might deserve in 2021.

thats-ridiculous

The young arms at A-level Kannapolis – Kelley, Thompson, Dalquist and Vera – are all interesting and could distinguish themselves with good showings. OF Benyamin Bailey and SS Jose Rodriguez (both still 19) are also in position to break out as prospects this season.

shaggy65

I can’t remember the last time the Sox had this many intriguing teenagers in their system.

Trooper Galactus

Luis Alexander Basabe, a player who the White Sox basically gave away, would stand a pretty good chance of being a top-10 player in this system still. Sure, there’s talent and potential after the top four guys, but not a whole lot of actual value when it comes to trades.

texag10

Number 5 prospect for Torkelson seems pretty damn high

Michael Kenny

Shallow farm system

MLB roster starved for depth

Draft college players and sign 22-year-old amateurs

MLB roster is supplemented sooner

Most prospects are low-ceiling

Prospects drafted after first round don’t pan out

Shallow farm system

HallofFrank

The “draft college/low ceiling players” criticism is only kind of true. In the first-half of the 2010’s, the Sox drafted a lot of HS guys early. And TA surely counts as a high-ceiling, up-the-middle player. They also did so in 2019 (3 of top 4 were HS) and 2020 (punted 3 of 5 picks to get Kelley.

We can just refer to 2015-2017 as the dark ages of Sox drafting. ’15 was an absolute dumpster fire—it looks like Mendick (22nd round) will be their best. ’16’s best so far is Foster (though Collins and Burdi are still kicking, I guess). ’17’s best will be a battle between Tyler Johnson and Luis Gonzalez, it appears.

HallofFrank

How about this for a wild stat?

*Combined* Career WAR to date:
W. Sox 2020 Draft: 0.3 WAR
W. Sox ’15, ’16, & ’17 Drafts: -0.4 WAR

Alarming. The best from the ’15-’17 group? Danny Mendick (1.1 WAR; ’15 22nd round) and Matt Foster (0.7 WAR; ’16 20th round).

knoxfire30

Multiple things can be true at the same time.

  1. The sox are still bad at talent evaluating, drafting, developing and thus they lean towards college players that have already developed a bit and should be easier to evaluate. This isnt a great strategy
  2. The padres loaded up on talent in a way they no longer can, it was a wise move on their part but they beat a lot of other teams to that punch as well.
  3. And this isnt to take anything away from the padres but I think the indians, cubs, rays, and pirates have all been borderline fleeced. These teams selling off top tier SP talent and not getting back higher end prospects in a desperate maneuver to cut payroll is terrible for the game.
Michael Kenny

Oh yeah, this is definitely a confluence of factors leading to the Padres’ madness.

But how are the Sox going to get their Aroldis Chapman or José Quintana? Do we expect them to take on the salary of a Justin Verlander? The rebuild just ended, and they’re already handcuffed.

texag10

We haven’t even bothered to build a complete roster. We were never going to be a team that would make effort for a big time trade deadline acquisition.

knoxfire30

Its just odd, you came into the off season with 5 areas of need, front line starter, rf, dh, closer, backup c. As of now they have acquired 3 of the 5 and may look to fill 2 of the 5 with internal options. 2 of the 3 they already acquired will need to be replaced in 2022 likely internally again… its just weird. They can win this division in January, likely for the next few years and they refuse to do it. They instead prod their way forward signing only 1 long term free agent deal.

texag10

This is basically the Family Guy meme at this point. Sure we could choose the boat (Bauer, Springer, Ozuna, Brantley) but look at the box (Vaughn, Stiever, Kopech, Cespedes). The box could be anything, even a boat!

Trooper Galactus

Except they would still have the box if they bothered to buy the boat.

jhomeslice

@knox Agree. I think fans were hoping they would sign guys for multiple years for at least a couple of those needs. Like you, I am not duped into being impressed that they filled 3 of those needs, since 2 are for one year, and they will need a SP and RF after 2021 again. Hendricks was a good signing but was not a year over year improvement, he only replaced Colome who was very good the past 2 years. Nothing all that worthy of excitement, to me.

I give the offseason a C-, I think that’s fair. This team will be good for the next few years, but that’s not the goal… a World Series is. I don’t think they are on the cusp, without adding someone with a bigger contract than Grandal, personally. If they don’t win it, that will be the difference. And the name for “what could have been” will be George Springer. With him, they would be hands down AL favorites, probably for 2-3 years. With Eaton, we get to wonder what RF they are likely to want to trade for in July. I only hope he is healthy… if my some miracle he is, he should be better than Mazara, as much as I hated the choice to sign him.

Trooper Galactus

They went into this offseason with exactly the same needs as last offseason (RF, DH, SP) with the added need for a closer and backup catcher. They got another top closer to replace their outgoing one, cheaped out on RF, got a cheap rental for SP (albeit a good one), and didn’t do jack shit for DH or backup C. I think a C- might be generous.

Trooper Galactus

Jake Peavy was a big trade deadline acquisition. Sadly, it may have served to make the organization hesitant to make a similarly bold move.

Amar

Is Peavy the right example though? In the end we just gave up a backend starter.

Trooper Galactus

I think it fits in the sense that it was a trade for an unquestioned ace starter on a large-ish contract (he had about $35 million remaining on his Padres contract plus a $22 million option). At the time of the trade we gave up a former first round pick who had just made his MLB debut (Aaron Poreda), a back-end lefty starter with 136.2 innings under his belt, a 26-year old reliever who had just made his MLB the previous season, and a long-shot collegiate starter drafted the previous year.

I think as an example of a big midseason acquisition it qualifies, especially given the money involved. That the players we sent in return generally didn’t pan out is irrelevant; it was a huge deal at the time and probably a midseason equivalent of the Darvish trade.

Eagle Bones

Re: the Pads fleecing these teams, using the BA top 100 (and I understand Jim was just using it as an example to point to, so not blaming him) is kind of an arbitrary cutoff point in terms of prospect value. Longenhagen has already said over at FG that Blake Hunt (acquired by Tampa in the Snell deal) is going to be on his Top 100. I expect Hudson Head (acquired by the Pirates in the Musgrove deal) to appear at the end of some of these lists (or be at least an honorable mention) as well. Cole Wilcox (went to the Rays along with Hunt in the Snell deal) was a top 20 talent in this past draft.

I wasn’t a fan of the package Cleveland got for Clevinger and I thought he Cubs opted a bit too much for upside over proximity, but there was a lot of high-end talent leaving the SD system in these deals. I don’t disagree with your comment that having this many of these kinds of deals is bad for the game, but value-wise, I thought the Rays and Pirates deals specifically were fine (and Clev’s injury makes me wonder if there was something in the medicals there that drove down his price). I also wonder how much different the prospect rankings on these guys would have been had there been a normal MiLB season (i.e. maybe the teams have much better updated information about these guys that the publicly available sites do).

Last edited 3 years ago by Eagle Bones
Just John

Adding to that, teams appear be taking quantity over quality. Front office opinions around baseball surely have their own feelings on how to measure the difference in talent between the #1, #10, #100 and #1000 prospects. Surely our views are warped with so many sensationalized lists of 100. The talent difference between prospect #100 and #101 is enormous for me, relative to any GM’s evaluation. The cancelled minor league season last year only adds to that disparity.
Among the acquiring teams, aren’t CLE and TB well known for developing quality players that never sniffed top 100 lists? In their cases, perhaps choosing quantity is the smarter way to go. Even PIT ended up with 5 potential big league contributors for a non-elite controllable arm. (I guess CHC don’t have much of an excuse)
While the general public (myself included) is underwhelmed by the hauls, general managers are probably chop-licking.

knoxfire30

Color me old fashioned but why a contending team would ever trade a clevinger , snell, or darvish without getting back a top 25 level prospect is beyond me. To struggle to nitpick into a guy or two being top 100 seems meh. Now the pirates are in total teardown mode so be it, but those other 3 teams were in the playoffs and had no reason to sell off high end MLB talent for possible big upside teen prospects years away.

Eagle Bones

Other than Patino (in the Snell deal) being a Top 25 prospect, I don’t disagree with you anywhere here. I’m not arguing these teams were smart to make these deals, I’m just saying I don’t think the Rays or Pirates got “fleeced” value wise.

Oddvark

Darvish is a little different than the other two given his large salary, and he didn’t have enough “surplus value” to command a high level prospect in return. Because of that, one might have hoped the Cubs would have hung on to him and tried to compete rather than trading him for a handful of lottery tickets, but millions of dollars can cause people to make bad decisions.

tbsoxfan

I think the proper starting point is taking more high-ceiling prep guys like the Padres’ Head, Hunt, and Hassell instead of Player X from Louisville with one average and 4 below average but passable tools. There’s no need to supplement the upper minors with any more of these guys, and the Sox contention window allows them to buy some time for a prep prospect to develop

dongutteridge

same old same old

MrStealYoBase
  1. Is the overvaluing of 18 and 19 year olds who haven’t played above short season the new market inefficiency?
  2. The Torkelson-Vaughn comparison is going to be a fun one over the next decade. I hope both guys play at a high level so it’s a debate worth having.

Edit: Also, I feel like this needs to be said: Between Delgado, Weaver, Thompson, Dalquist, Bush, Beard, and Kelley, it’s not like the Sox haven’t gone above-slot for prep talent in the last few drafts. The lack of a season for those guys in 2020 prevented them from building any kind of prospect profile or trade value.

Am I still going to beat the teen international amateurs drum? Yes. But it’s not like the Sox are closing their eyes and putting their fingers in their ears. It seems like they are making a targeted effort to build another wave of prospects for 3-4 years down the line.

Last edited 3 years ago by MrStealYoBase
Eagle Bones

Is it overvaluing 18/19 year olds or are teams able to value them more accurately now? Teams are clutching prospects now more than ever since they are the avenue to cheap payrolls, so the top top guys just don’t seem to be made available except in exchange for the most valuable of MLB assets. It sounds like teams are getting better data and scouting info on these players now than they were even just a few years ago. So if their choice is between low-ceiling closer to the majors guys and these further off, higher ceiling guys (and they are getting better info on those guys now), I can’t fault the teams for going that direction (especially if they’re nowhere near contending like Pittsburgh).

Last edited 3 years ago by Eagle Bones
Oddvark

I love coming here to be reminded how 2021 is another terrible year to be a Sox fan!

oldtimer

Oddvark – I think I’m with you. I see the Sox having a very good staff, great bullpen, excellent offense, decent bench and A+ culture. Absolutely, positively excited to follow this team in 2021. Sadly I/we appear to be in the minority.

As Cirensica

I am with you, but I also believe more could (should) have be done easily.I can’t wait to see Robert again.

Last edited 3 years ago by As Cirensica
roke1960

Count me in with you guys. I see nothing constructive with these conversations in this thread.

lifelongjd

Exactly. The Sox had a few needs coming into the offseason—RF, SP, and a closer at the top. They have made solid transactions to address them. The only one they haven’t made a move on is DH, where they have some intriguing young bats that could fill the role plus a couple vets (Abreu, Grandal) who can DH on off days. Perhaps another signing will happen?
This site is the best for deep analysis of all things Sox, but it’s readers harp on the same things and have such a pessimistic view of its team. Not signing Machado/Harper, the possibility to sign Springer, and every move made by another organization (such as SD) clouds what the front office has accomplished in building a strong team with a young core that is ready to compete for an extended window.
Do I want them to sign Springer and Cruz and Bauer? Absolutely. But I also want to see what our promising prospects (Vaughn, Kopech, et al, and now Cespedes) can do to continue the influx of young talent. Or else, what good was trading Sale, Q, and Eaton and then losing all those years? I want this team to win and be competitive for years, not for 1-2 seasons while watching older vets decline after signing them for 4-5 year contracts.

Trooper Galactus

Eaton was such a mediocre acquisition that he wasn’t even discussed here as an option when the offseason began. He was a cheap choice with little upside but plenty of risk at a position where their depth is virtually nonexistent.

joewho112

No one is saying they will have a terrible year. They are saying the opposite: The Sox are really good which is why it’s frustrating to jeopardize the season by starting it with so many patchable holes.

Oddvark

I understand the frustration, especially for not at least pursuing Springer or signing a solid left-handed bat, etc. And there is certainly valid criticism that can be made of the Sox’s draft picks in recent years (even if I think it is a bit overstated with no credit given for players who succeeded or were traded or still have potential, and too much blame when draft picks don’t work out, like they do for every other team).

But the wall of negativity that I was met with in the comments here — in response to exactly one team in all of MLB having recently made several trades for established pieces from a deep farm system of young prospects — was a bit too much for me.

Eagle Bones

Don’t take this as me saying “get out” or “leave” or anything, but there are places on the internet that are full of endless positivity when it comes to this team if that’s what you’re looking for. There are also places on the internet that will pan every move this team makes whether it’s good or not with little to no reasoning or explanation. I (and I’m sure others) come to this site for a more nuanced and thoughtful discussion. I get that there is a fair amount of comments in this thread that are critical of the organization, but I don’t think anything here was really unfair and most posters here do an excellent job of explaining their position and providing supporting evidence. It may not always be “fun” to read, but it’s usually informative and thought-provoking. Isn’t that the point?

Last edited 3 years ago by Eagle Bones
Oddvark

Cool.

lifelongjd

Sooner or later we need to know if these highly rated prospects can play. Blocking Vaughn (if he’s ready) with a Cruz signing makes no sense to me. Same goes with Kopech and signing a guy like Odorizzi.

As Jerry Angelo used to say, don’t confuse action with productivity

denny

agree wholeheartedly, LLJD

Last edited 3 years ago by denny
joewho112

Sign a DH who can play RF and he won’t block him. Or block Caughn and use him for a midseason trade. Right now, we are pinning our World Series hopes to a guy who hasn’t plated above A-ball which seems silly.

We’ve reached the point in the rebuild where teams say “Fuck the prospects” and go all in on winning.

Signing a low tier starter doesn’t even block anyone. You just cut them or move them to the bullpen with Kopech is ready.

Trooper Galactus

What I wouldn’t give for this team to have the problem of having too many good players at a given position.

peanutsNcrackerjack

Perhaps in the minority here, but an X factor for success year over year that isn’t being discussed is the change in coaching staff. 3x WS champion manager vs really-nice-guy cheerleader with suspect in-game strategic value. Pitching coach with proven track record with our ace starter and state of the art coaching technique vs. a pitching coach who hasn’t had much success at all developing the current staff.

Drdoctor

Wow, the foregone conQlusion that wasn’t, if Rosenthal is accurate

dwjm3

Six years 150 for Springer

That seems like a pretty good deal

Jerry really is miserly

Oddvark

Funny, I thought 6/150 was a lot for Springer.

But I was disappointed that the Sox couldn’t beat the reported 1/8 deal for Q.

Drdoctor

There’s still so many guys left in FA, I will hold out optimism that a Marcell Ozuna is coming our way. 1/8 for Q sure, like the guy, missing out on that deal’s not worth my disappointment.

dwjm3

I’d take Ozuna for sure

Oddvark

The disappointment is relative to when they sign Brett/Tyler Anderson. If they are going to get a back-end starter, Quintana is one of the better ones available and he could have been had without a big commitment of either years or dollars.

And if you’re hoping for Ozuna, you might want to practice being disappointed with Quintana, just so you are prepared.

dwjm3

Oh I don’t need to practice being disappointed as I’m a sox fan.

Drdoctor

Perhaps. Not feeling like living in disappointment right now. I’m oddly content with what’s been going on thus far. Could be that I’m a little removed from the standard dourness of the last 8 years, but simply not feeling like being disappointed about not signing one specific back end guy.

dwjm3

Mlbtr predicted five for 125…So pretty close to expectations

Oddvark

That extra year @ $25M for his age 36 season is a pretty significant difference. But what’s a couple (dozen) million between friends.

Don’t get me wrong. I wish the White Sox would have signed Springer and that they woud then continue to spend money as needed over the 6 years of his contract. But I still think it’s a hefty contract.

Eagle Bones

That’s because you’re looking through sox tinted glasses.

Oddvark

And apparently Mets-tinted ones. And the tint of every other team other than the Blue Jays.

Eagle Bones

Other teams are cheap, so the Sox should be too? The Mets currently have a $185 million payroll (according to BR) and have a glut of bats (at least until the NL brings back the DH). The White Sox have a sub $130 million payroll and a gaping hole in their lineup / outfield.

Oddvark

If didn’t even say that the Sox shouldn’t have signed (or at least tried to sign) Springer. In fact I expressly stated that I wished the Sox would have signed him. I just said that 6/$150 for the 31-year-old Springer seemed like a lot right now and that $25 million more for a 6th year at that age was a significant difference than 5/$150. And that only one team was willing to go that high. I don’t see how any of those sentiments are incorrect. But feel free to tint your glasses however you like as you read this.

Eagle Bones

You said 6/150 was “a hefty contract”. My point was that’s not really that big anymore. Top FAs are signing $200 and $300 million deals now. This only feels huge because it’s way bigger than anything the Sox have done in the past.

Trooper Galactus

The White Sox technically offered more if you take the seven option years into account.