Derek Jeter the only lock before Hall of Fame makes calls
The Hall of Fame Class of 2020 will be unveiled at 5 p.m. CT today, and just like last year, it’s a low-stress occasion for the White Sox, who have already locked in a reason to celebrate in Cooperstown this summer.
Derek Jeter is the only one who will be flying in. He’s running at 100 percent on Ryan Thibodaux’s Hall of Fame ballot tracker, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he joined Mariano Rivera as the only unanimous inductees.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if he were the only player voted in by the Baseball Writers Association of America, either.
Jeter won’t be entirely on his own. Ted Simmons and Marvin Miller got in through the Modern Era Ballot, and while Hawk Harrelson isn’t officially a Hall of Famer — Frick Award recipients are listed in a different wing of the museum — he’ll bring White Sox fans to Cooperstown that weekend for his ceremony, which is the day before the main event.
It’s a grind for most everybody else, though, especially Larry Walker, who is on his 10th and final year of eligibility. He’s currently running at 83.8 percent, but his case tends to get ignored by voters who don’t make their ballots public in advance. Last year, his public vote pull was 11.3 percent higher than his private pace. If he suffered from a comparable gap this time around, his final vote total would fall short of the 75 percent threshold required for induction.
Curt Schilling is in a similar position, although he’s got two more chances afterward, and he’d already be in if he were a halfway decent human being. Here’s how the other returning candidates look when sized up against the percentage of votes gained and last year.
Player | Current | % gained/lost |
---|---|---|
Larry Walker | 83.5 | –11.3 |
Curt Schilling | 78.8 | -8.9 |
Barry Bonds | 71.7 | -11.6 |
Roger Clemens | 70.8 | -11.6 |
Omar Vizquel | 49.5 | 4.4 |
Scott Rolen | 47.6 | -3.9 |
Gary Sheffield | 36.3 | -0.2 |
Billy Wagner | 34.9 | -0.5 |
Jeff Kent | 33.0 | 0.9 |
Todd Helton | 32.1 | -1.2 |
Manny Ramirez | 31.6 | -2.6 |
Andruw Jones | 24.1 | -0.7 |
Of all the players ascending toward 75 percent, Rolen has made the most dramatic jump. He’s approaching 50 percent on the ballot in his third year after garnering just 17.2 percent of the vote last year, which is a remarkable upswing. Sheffield and Helton are roughly doubling their support from last year, which is the kind of trajectory they needed at this stage in their candidacies.
So it’s not all bad for the fringe candidates. More good news — next year’s Hall of Fame ballot doesn’t feature any new locks, either. Mark Buehrle and Tim Hudson are the best of the bunch, so nobody from the outside is going to be blocking ballot spots for players who need every one they can get.
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That’s also a plus for Buehrle, who should have the time and space to have the unique merits of his case discussed and considered. There will also be a little more room to get The Hey, Nice Career Nod that used to be more prevalent before the ballot got jammed up with 15 or more deserving candidates for 10 spots.
Fellow White Sox retired number Paul Konerko hasn’t been able to exceed expectations, who has received just one public vote. It was a hometown salute from Scot Gregor, who also included votes for eight others, and might be the template for the Buehrle ballots next year.
Konerko’s road looked like a perilous climb for the start, but there’s reward in even being eligible for votes. His appearance on the ballot afforded terrific retrospectives on his career like this one from James Fegan.
As a professional hitter, Konerko stands out to his peers for his sincere efforts to conquer the medium intellectually. Whereas Konerko respects the logic of the current mindset of hitters repeating a maximalist, power-oriented swing, itโs the antithesis of what he had achieved by the end of his career โ an endless library of swing adjustments and approach variations that he toggled through game to game, matchup to matchup, at-bat to at-bat and pitch to pitch.
The end result at the conclusion of an 18-year big league career was a mastery of hitting strategy that his peers both romanticize and envy.
I’ve long considered the ballot to be a temporary Hall of Fame of sorts, because even if a player only tops out at 20 percent of the vote, that’s 10 years that his name and accomplishments are recognized and reviewed by the baseball public. It might not be a proper tribute and enshrinement, but it’s more attention than 95 percent of his peers receive. It just so happens that one has to be better than 99 percent of his peers to gain entry in the Hall of Fame, and a plaque takes on a lot more meaning when realizing the difficulty of conquering that last 3 percent.
I like Vizquel well enough, but I’d put every player under him on that list in before him.
He’s basically Jimmy Rollins; well-known, excellent player. Not quite good enough for the Hall.
Yeah, I wouldn’t vote for Vizquel, but he falls into the Baines category where if somebody wants to try getting into the Hall by duplicating his career, good luck.
I know a lot of good guy bad guy plays into it, but if Curt Schilling is a debate then Mark Buehrle isnt.
Obviously I’m a homer here, but Buehrle has an interesting case under the “hall of fame is here to document interesting baseball stories” case:
1) 15 straight years of 200 innings pitched
2) Threw 1 of 23 perfect games in MLB history
3) Threw a no-hitter where he faced the minimum and got all 27 batters out, picking off Sammy Sosa after walking him
4) Started World Series Game 2, followed it up by getting the save in Game 3 (the first pitcher to do that in 50 years).
5) 4 time Gold Glover.
Obviously it’s not the strongest case in the world, but I think Buehrle has a very fun story to tell as a part of the history of the MLB. (Of course, none of this really does much to refute your point, since Schilling also has a very interesting on-field story to tell as a part of the history of the MLB)
number 2 and 3 are pretty weak to throw into a hall case, the others are interesting but the cumulative puts him 20-25% a lesser pitcher then a guy like schilling sabermetricly so…. I just dont see a case.
How many times was he the best pitcher in the league convo?
I do think Schilling is/should be a HOFer, but Buerhle should too. The “best pitcher in the league” metric just doesn’t interest me because each player’s case is different.ย Buehrle’s case clearly depends more on being “merely” great for a long period of time instead of being elite for a short period of time. However the HOF has acted in the past, I see no reasonโall else being equalโto prefer one over the other.ย
he got cy young consideration 1 time…. its not hall of very good, its not the hall of good for a long time either, to me you need to be one of the perennial best players at your position, the halladay case is a better one, similar war value in a lot less time, but the dominance of 2 cy young wins and 2 runner up cy young finishes is a massive difference then a guy who finished 5th once….
just my two cents
Sure, but part of my point is that it is personal preference. There are lots of “very good” pitchers, but not many “very good” pitchers for basically 15 straight years. I’m not sure how to bake-in consistency, but I think it counts for something. ย
In Buerhle’s case, my personal evaluationโin an a sincere, but likely failed, attempt at objectivityโwould put him just over the hump to get in. I think his numbers put him on the fence or even *slightly* on the wrong side of it, but the Gold Gloves, Perfect Game, No-Hitter, and playoff performance get him just over that hump, in my book.
To your CY votes point, it’s worth considering that Buerhle mostly played when wins and other, older numbers were probably overvalued in consideration.ย
He showed an ability to consistently be among the league leaders in categories like WAR and ERA+:
2001 – 3rd in WAR, 3rd in ERA+
2002 – 8th in WAR
2004 – 9th in ERA+
2005 – 4th in WAR, 3rd in ERA+
2007 – 6th in WAR, 9th in ERA+
2009 – 7th in WAR, 10th in ERA+ย
2012 – 9th in WAR (in National League with MIA)
Im not sure those numbers help a hall of fame case, even if they do counter act a little of the fact he got so few cy votes in his career.
And if we are using WAR again I think he takes a huge step back. Using fwar and bwar schilling had give or take 80 war for each, buehrle a 60 and 50ish total… its not close and sorry being a “bad guy” (even though a lot of schillings teams seemed to win a lot of games despite this) isnt enough to remove a 30 percent career value disadvantage
In Schilling’s case, I’m assuming those who aren’t voting for him are referencing this clause:
5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
To be clear @knoxfire30, I’m not suggesting Buerhle’s case is stronger (or as strong) as Schilling. I think Schilling’s case is difficult to assess for the “bad guy” label, rightly or wrongly. So it doesn’t seem right to me to say that because Schilling is having a time getting in, Buerhle doesn’t have a shot. Especially when Schilling’s being adversely effected for being hated suggests Buerhle might get a boost for being universally loved.ย
That’s fair. I think your standard is more rigorous than the Hall of Fame Voters’ standard, which in turn is more rigorous than my standard.
I think the Hall should be for celebrating the game of baseball. I’m a Big Hall guy, and even so, Buehrle is certainly toward the limit of how far I would go to vote a player in. To me, the Perfect Game and No-Hitter while facing the minimum (only Buehrle and Sandy Koufax have thrown multiple No-Hitters while facing the minimum) pushes him over the line for me. Those are such extremely rare events (only 28 times has a pitcher given up 0 hits while facing the minimum, ever) that I think he’s worth celebrating.
Im pulling for him, hope im just being pessimistic on the stats and all the other stuff will propel him but I have serious doubts.
To me Buehrle is like Vlad Guerrero. Vlad’s Hall of Fame case. Both were very good players who drew eyes to their games, and they stood out for the way they played differently than everybody else. (And I felt this way before just now looking up that they both put up 59 bWAR over 16 seasons).
I’m not sure why a Perfect Game and No-Hitter wouldn’t be part of a Hall of Fame case. I’m not saying they are the only factors, but if the Hall of Fame has a special display specifically to celebrate those moments, they should certainly go on the Hall of Fame resume for the player.
Vlad had an MVP, 2(3rd) and 2 (4th) place finishes…
This is more my opinion then anything fact based on hall voting, but im under the impression more weight is given on periods of dominance vs extended periods of good
don’t forget buehrle also threw another game where he faced the minimum number of batters. on july 21, 2004 he gave up two singles to the indians and both base runners were eliminated on double plays. i am fairly certain he is the only pitcher in MLB history to face the minimum number of batters three times.
Mussina is a good parallel for Schilling, in terms of what he would’ve experienced by being a tolerable human being.
Halladay would’ve been the closest litmus test for Buehrle because it seems like voters understand pitcher benchmarks have shifted, but his case had an emotional component that changed the way voters responded.
I did think he was a bit weird he sailed in. I feel like if he hadn’t passed away, his case would have been a big sabermetrician/traditionalist debate. He definitely SHOULD be in, so things ended up in the right place. It’s just strange that it took a tragedy to make it happen.
Schilling isn’t really a debate. He’d have been in years ago if he hadn’t been such a spectacular pudwhack since his retirement.
He was awful while he was playing, too. At least to the people I know at one club that he played for – all administrative people, not big-name front office or other players. He was known to be a complete a****** to that level of employee.
Edited to note that from a purely baseball perspective, he should be in. But he’s burned a hell of a lot of bridges.
I know it’s a baseball museum and I’m at conflict with myself because I think the steroid guys should be in. But I am COMPLETELY fine with excluding an asshat like Schilling. He doesn’t need another public platform.
I dont think Walker is getting in because of that “Oh ONLY the sainted Jeter should get in on his ballot! #re2pect” garbage that some of the writers seem to have.
” if he were a halfway decent human being”
62% Troglodyte….tough break.
Yay for the fun January name list
Link that got cut off from what I can see
WHO’S WHO COMING
No disrespect to Matt Skole but he’s gonna be 31 next year and he’s still a career minor leaguer, why is he still there?
Maybe the Sox plan to start Vaughn at Winston-Salem and Sheets at Birmingham. Having Skole at AAA gives Charlotte a competent bat for however long he’s there, and also a guy who could be cut if Vaughn warrants a quick promotion.
I look forward to seeing if Tayron Guerrero will be the new Thyago Vieria.
I was more thinking along the lines of why Matt still continues to play baseball as a profession. Most guys who don’t make it to the majors retire around 26-27 years old. I can’t imagine Matt has made much money in the brief stints he’s been in Chicago.
The organization probably likes him, and he probably likes the organization. Seems like a good bet to transition into a minor league coaching role at some point.
Konerko’s getting more than one vote.
Hey, he got a “that guy killed us” vote!
Ozuna gets 1 year 18 million
I would have rather had him for one year then Mazara
Ugh sox should def have been willing to top this and by a fair amount.
Yep, we could have had him for a year and still gone after Mookie et al.
Well, you would have had to wait till Jan 21st to get that deal.
What’s the problem with that? It’s not like they already spent a boatload on castellanos already or something. The roster could easily accommodate his addition right now. It’s one of the few remaining ways they could’ve made progress in closing the gap with the twins and indians.
The problem is it rewrites history. as you well know, they were not waiting till now to fill Right field. this isn’t Thanksgiving where you put some of everything on your plate.
My bad, I was looking on phone and the nesting of the comments was off. Yeah if you’d “rather” have him than Mazara, obviously that wasn’t going to happen at this price point. They should have been willing to add him on top of Mazara at this point though.
Congratulations to Larry Walker and to Canadian baseball fans who must be elated he is in.
“Dylan Covey outrighted to Charlotte.”
“That’s ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ.”
“It’s the second time. He can still elect free agency.”
“…”
“That’s ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ.”
Getting back to the Buehrle Hall of Fame discussion, it would not surprise me if he ends up in the Hall one day. Fifteen years in a row of making 30 starts and 200 innings (well, the final year was 198.1) should be looked at as an amazing stat. Add in the perfect game, the no-hitter facing the minimum, the workmanlike attitude, the World Series save and he should get strong consideration. Didn’t he also at least temporarily set a record for consecutive batters retired in consecutive starts? I also believe he was on the verge of setting a record for most consecutive starts of six innings or more when he got thrown out of that game by Joe West for arguing a balk call, but I could be wrong on that.
There is something to be said for a starting pitcher taking the ball on a consistent basis. When a guy has to miss a turn or go on the IL, think about how much that can disrupt a rotation and a team. With Buehrle, each start you could count on him going at least six or seven innings, so you wouldn’t have to go to your bullpen early. Contrast that with what we’ve seen from someone like Rodon, who, when he doesn’t have his best stuff, is usually out of the game by the fourth because of a high pitch count; that is, if he’s actually healthy enough to take the ball.
Larry Walker when he got the call, he was wearing a shirt with Sponge Bob Square Pants on it.
I love this guy!