Cubs showed Steve Cishek has his limits
Watch Steve Cishek pitch, and his delivery stands out. He throws out of a true sidearmed slot, a flattened Chris Sale Condor M that results in the same gross still images of his elbow, and some insane break on his pitches, albeit in shorter bursts.
Steve Cishek, 79mph Slider and 90mph Sinker, Overlay. pic.twitter.com/e4ftEfXOnN
— Rob Friedman (@PitchingNinja) April 12, 2019
When looking at Cishek’s Baseball-Reference.com page, his appearances column stands out. Joe Maddon worked Cishek hard over the last two seasons:
- 2015: 59
- 2016: 62
- 2017: 49
- 2018: 80
- 2019: 70
And lest you think he had a Mike Myers or Randy Choate thing going on, his ability to retire both righties and lefties resulted in a real reliever’s workload of 134 innings.
After word broke that the White Sox signed Cishek to a one-year, $6 million deal, Matt Spiegel mentioned the hevay usage in his immediate reaction.
So I ran it by my friend Randy, a Cubs fan. He said something similar:
“Cishek takes the ball but really shouldn’t sometimes. His numbers say he’s generally effective but it never really feels that way. There are times where he can’t get his pitches to slide in the zone and that’s awful to watch. He’s worth what they signed him for. If he’s your fourth-best reliever, that’s not bad.”
Some of that may be recency bias speaking, but also I’m guessing Cishek stands as emblematic of the team’s fortunes. Neither he nor the Cubs could rediscover their best forms at the ends of the last two seasons. Over his two Septembers with the Cubs, Cishek’s line shows more free bases (14 walks, four HBPs) than strikeouts (16). His ground-ball rate started far better than it finished during the course of both seasons, and he also had spells of missing the zone in both second halves.
This past September was particularly ghastly. He lost a game against the Padres in humiliating fashion on Sept. 10, giving up a one-out single, followed by three consecutive walks to lose the game. Over that game and his final six outings, he issued eight walks to just one strikeout, and he threw just half of his pitches for strikes.
Cishek did hit the injured list with hip inflammation in August, and while that particular injury might have had nothing to do with his September, it fits in with a game log that shows the Cubs pushing him past his limits. Coming out of the All-Star break, Cishek pitched in eight of the Cubs’ first 12 games of the second half, and 10 of the first 16 before he started seeing diminishing returns. The IL trip soon followed.
When Cishek returned, Maddon used him seven times over the first 12 days back — most of them full-inning deals — and Cishek eventually hit the wall in that Padres game, never to recover.
Going through the Bill James Handbook 2020, look at where Cishek finished on the leaderboard for pitching on consecutive days:
| Rank | Pitcher | Cons Days | G | IP |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Alex Claudio | 26 | 83 | 62 |
| 2 | Wander Suero | 25 | 78 | 71.1 |
| 3 | Andrew Miller | 24 | 73 | 54.2 |
| Emilio Pagan | 24 | 66 | 70 | |
| 5 | Steve Cishek | 23 | 70 | 64 |
There’s a chance that Cishek could be shot, but he should get a break as he moves from the North Side to the South Side. When it comes to managers, Maddon has been far more aggressive in using relievers on consecutive days in comparison to Rick Renteria. The Bill James Handbook says Renteria has averaged just 99 RCD cases a season with the White Sox, while Maddon has exceeded 100 RCD cases in 12 of his last 13 seasons, including a four-year stretch in Tampa where he averaged 127.5.
Now, perhaps Renteria will manage a bullpen differently now that he’ll be graded on wins and losses for the first time in his managerial career. As long as we’ve known him, he hasn’t been one to run a reliever into the ground, with Aaron Bummer’s June about as close as he got.
The key is to make sure that Cishek is not Renteria’s not the only trustworthy righty for extended stretches in front of Alex Colomé. That’s not a given, because in the Venn diagram between recent success (Evan Marshall, Jimmy Cordero) and distinguished track records (Kelvin Herrera), Cishek stands alone. As long as he’s not by himself come July, he should be fine.
Author
Is Cishek the Sox’ top righty setup man at the moment, or do we think that Marshall can continue his success from last season?
We need one of Herrera, Cordero, Hamilton or Burdi to step up to be the Sox’ top righty set-up man. I would like to see Cishek in the 7th inning of games. If one or two of the above-mentioned guys step up, we will have a deep bullpen. The big question is, “Can Ricky manage a bullpen when it matters?”
Yeah, Renteria’s ability to manage the bullpen is gonna be a big deal, perhaps especially in the first half.
If Tyler Johnson does well in Birmingham and is able to stay healthy, I could see them bringing him up to mix with the bullpen at some point.
If Ricky can manage the bullpen like Ozzie, that’s good … but if this bullpen has relievers that resemble Jenks, Thornton, or Crain that’s also good lol
I’m going to take Jimmy Cordero in this fight.
Jimmy Cordero is probably a good pick in any fight.
Steve Cishek is the goto praise Jesus for Ricky vs da Twinkies and da Tribe without hesitation. It’s a veteran with post seasons success which means much dearest: not just we Modelo Especial swiger’s. More I concur (as gloriously develuged here in) our precious bullpen youngns’ Matees.
Tommy Likey.
What did I do with that Ovaltine decoder ring?
Et tu, Brute?
Sorry.
Au contraire Mr Smee…Yo Ho!
Progression: Ditka -> Pirates -> Ancient Rome -> Pirates again
Worthy Patrick yet deluded: Richard J. Daley Da Sox.
Shakespeare (He’s older).
Walt Disney Capt Hook Arrrrrr.
Tommy Boy fondly.
I don’t do autographs as it’s idol worship but my bar tabs have quenched multitudes.
@Soxfest?
To Hell with an Ovaltine decoder, we need an Enigma machine.
Just one of the unintended consequences of legal marijuana.
among many
So basically you sat down and asked yourself, “Hmmm, what are some things?”
Ummmm rather just to guide you where Hmmmm was all you Patrick.
@Soxfest
I was a fan of the last fellow, floridajim. You and I will get along just fine.
Did not think of this until now, but this is VERY floridajim-like.
floridjim must have found his old copy of Allen Ginsberg’s “Howl” in the attic.
The poetry beatings will continue until morale improves.
Must be a Vogon ship.
He has done the 3-and-4-changes-in-an-inning thing enough times though. The new rule should alleviate that thank goodness..
Without that DL stint Cishek would have been over 70 appearances last year. That really IS abuse of a reliever, although I think part of that was Maddon’s disgust with Epstein giving him little to work with. (Epstein’s commitment to Brandon Morrow – a guy who never has thrown over 30 innings – is bizarre.) The 3-batter rule will alleviate some of that abuse, but by how much remains to be seen.
OR we could just DFA him, jeez.
No time for messing around this year.
It’s important the Sox get value out of the 7 and 8 bullpen spots. No more carrying around the Jose Ruizes of the world because they like his potential. Whoever gets those spots has to pitch well. I’d like to see them sign some veterans to spring training deals too to see if they rise to the top during spring training. Addison Reed is a bounce back candidate who will not get a major league deal.
It’s not that important. Those roster spots are fungible. Much more important that the 3rd/4th/5th relievers pitch well, so the 7th/8th relievers don’t matter at all.
Don’t really agree with that. It seems like that line of thinking is going to get Cishek overexposed. Those spots need to be able to pitch a 6th or 7th inning with some decent leverage (1 or 2 run lead) on occasion so Renteria does not have to use the same relievers anytime the Sox have a lead.
They really should be fungible though. The key is cutting bait with a pitcher when its clear they can’t do what we need them to do. Roster churn is not necessarily a bad thing.
If you’re going to the bullpen in the 6th inning with a 2-run lead, the bullpen isn’t the problem.
Yeah, it’s the fact you didn’t sign a damn RF who can hit.
Every roster spot is important particularly if you’re hoping to come out ahead in a close 3 team race for a playoff spot.
What are the chances Jace Fry can have a bounce-back season in 2020?
Not necessarily to the level that he was at in ’18, but let’s say getting his FIP and xFIP back into the 3s?
If he can get his breaking pitches over against lefties, I think there is a very good chance that he has a bounce-back season.
I would like to see Fry used as an opener on the days Lopez, Cease, and Kopech pitch.
I know the Sox aren’t really that kind of team, but it would be a good use of Fry’s skill set and would help our young righties our a lot too. They all struggle with that first inning so much.
Fry was a starter for many years so it shouldn’t be too hard for him, and he has occasionally shown the ability to get righties out. If he is on a roll, let him go the whole inning. If he looks shaky, pull him after the third batter and let the starter clean up his mess / get the final out(s).
Talked to a cubbie fan friend yesterday when this was announced. He basically echoed the same sentiment. Way overused/abused by Maddon (because Cubs bullpen). Should be a solid complementary piece in a stronger group.
New Infield Outs Above average has Moncada above average, Tim average, Yolmer not as far above average as you might think, and Abreu not as far below average as you might think. H/t Fegan https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/infield_outs_above_average
Abreu was 36th out of 40 first basemen. That IS as below average as we think.
I’d say the magnitude is what’s most surprising.
If Madrigal proves to be as good a defender as expected and Anderson improves a bit, the Sox infield defense might be good enough that the high ground ball rates from Keuchel and Gonzalez works out well. Abreu doesn’t seem especially weak at receiving throws.
LOL at eric hosmer tho.
I thought Anthony Rizzo was supposed to be a super-duper defender? Has he always been bad?
Ryan Cordell, defensive whiz!
I’m taking this as definitive proof we won the Tatis Jr. trade.
Excellent. I now have a new stat to throw in with Baseball Prospectus’s FRAA in my “Tim Anderson is a decent defender” propaganda campaign.
Ah Jim’s selection of “arms falling out of sockets” photos is back!
Relates to 1 of the reasons I liked the front office adding Ben Hansen. Some of his research is on fatigue/abuse. Could help them get smarter about usage.
I would expect that Fry and Herrera will be better this year than they were last year, possibly much better, while Colome, Bummer, Cordero and Marshall will show some regression. If the Sox don’t over-use Cishek, he should be an effective piece, but who really knows with relief pitchers. That’s why it’s good that Cishek is not guaranteed multiple years in his contract. If he doesn’t pitch well, we don’t have to bring him back.
One of the younger guys, such as Hamilton, Burdi, Fulmer or Ruiz, might step up and provide some positive contributions as well. I have basically given up on Covey and I hope he never pitches for the Sox again. In retrospect, I wish Covey had not defeated Sale in that fluke start a couple of years ago. That one win earned Covey far too many second chances from this organization.
That was one of the most fun games to watch though. It’s hard to regret it.
I’m kind of expecting Herrera to be DFA’d by the end of May if the Sox are in contention.
You and I must live in parallel realities.