Winter Meetings Wake Up Call: Day One

Hello from the Winter Meetings in San Diego. This is the Day One report of the rumors and news concerning the Chicago White Sox. 

Latest rumors about Marcell Ozuna
– White Sox starting pitching targets
– Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons elected to Hall of Fame

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Patrick Nolan

Hector Gomez is doubling down on the Ozuna rumors

Would sign with the White Sox, under what conditions?

andyfaust

Both Hahn and Reinsdorf laughed that one off earlier today. According to Jon Heyman. So, for me, Hector Gomez’s credibility takes a hit. I still pay attention to him though.

dwjm3

I put the article from the Dominican paper in to Google Translator…Here it is……………………………………………………………………..

The Chicago White Sox entered the off-season looking to make a series of moves to become a 2020 contender. Now, the club could be about to sign up for All-Star outfielder Marcell Ozuna.
Sponsored

According to Frank Castillo, a sports reporter in the Dominican Republic, Ozuna is flying to the United States to sign with the White Sox, and the deal will be announced tomorrow Monday.

It’s a big move for a team that already signed All-Star catcher Yasmani Grandal and re-hired first baseman Jose Abreu. Ozuna played well for the Cardinals during the 2019 season with 29 home runs, 89 RBIs, 12 stolen bases and a .800 OPS in 131 games.

The 29-year-old began warming up in June with a .299/.358/.471 cut line, then suffered a broken finger. He also excelled in October with a .324 /.359 /.595 cut in 37 at-bats.

The White Sox expect there to be even more potential in Ozuna’s bat. According to Mike Petriello of MLB.com, Ozuna ranked in the 95th percentile in hard hit rate (49.2 percent) and ranked in the top 25 per metric in quality contacts since 2018.

Ozuna has played mainly in left field in his career, although he has made 65 appearances in right field.

Since the White Sox will probably want to keep Jimenez in left field, Ozuna is likely to switch to the right.

Injuries have reduced the former Golden Glove outfielder to an under-average defender, but the White Sox would count on him much more for his bat.

A NOTE
It would be LF or designated
He had his best season in 2017 with the Marlins by hitting a .312-376-.548 offense with 37 home runs and 124 RBIs and winning the Gold Glove. Now the batter
will benefit you from your shoulder problems.

jorgefabregas

Ok, so this is just an article based on the Castillo tweet.

As Cirensica

Pretty much it looks like a story based on a tweet.

asinwreck

Going from Chicago to San Diego in December and getting a cold is quite a feat. Feel better, Josh.

DuckSnorting-CanofCorn

Spending 4 hours in a flying fart tube with other Chicagoans traveling out there is likely what did him in.

Lurker Laura

Geez, what airline do you fly?

Trooper Galactus

Flying Fart Tube Air, clearly. Are you saying you do not travel FFTA?

hackwilson

Josh… if true?
4 years 58 million as a Mendicino reclamation project in left field.
Eloy to RF.

phillyd

Eloy should go nowhere near RF. Ever. Not even in warmups.

zerobs

What does the Sir Douglas Quintet have to do with it?

Right Size Wrong Shape

I regret that I only have but one upvote to give…

roke1960

One of the best comments of the year, zerobs!

asinwreck

Oh, man, and almost exactly 20 years after we lost Sir Doug. This needs way more votes (from posters of A Certain Age, at least).

roke1960

Yeah, anybody under 50 probably has no idea what we are talking about.

Right Size Wrong Shape

I’m 40, but Doug Sahm is a hero.

I’ve heard this means you’re a man.

Too bad that guy isn’t perpetually 40 so he could just continue saying that for the rest of his life.

I know I’m living it up this year.

Trooper Galactus

A 2-3 WAR player is not a reclamation project.

knash

Jerry Reinsdorf had a laugh about Marcell Ozuna reports. He said he called Sox GM Rick Hahn and asked him, “Am I having a senior moment? Because I don’t recall any conversation about Marcell Ozuna.” He said Hahn assured him that it wasn’t a senior moment and there is no such deal

— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) December 9, 2019

dwjm3

Nationals just threw Strasburg 245 million…If pitching is this expensive maybe we should have gone higher on Wheeler

Eagle Bones

Wow I thought he was going to best Wheeler and Corbin’s deals by quite a bit, but I did not see this coming. Wonder if that means Rendon is definitely gone?

dwjm3

I think Wheeler’s agent screwed up. If teams are going to throw crazy money at pitchers he should have waited until the top end of the market was set

Eagle Bones

If location was really that important to him, maybe he didn’t want to tempt fate that teams in that specific area would go another way.

Eagle Bones

Are Phillies out? Think I read something saying they’d rather go with a shorter deal (maybe a fit for Donaldson) so as to not “block” Bohm.

MrTopaz

Is it awesome being there? It sounds like this is a fun year to be there.

Trooper Galactus

And this is why I don’t buy anything Nightengale ever writes.

asinwreck

Dark approach to getting the Sox under new ownership, but I admire the commitment.

GrinnellSteve

Imagine what Cole is going to get now. I guess I’m comfortable with the Sox not being in on this.

AdamH

If that’s what top pitching costs and you need elite pitchers to compete.. I’m pretty uncomfortable with the Sox missing out, regardless how eye popping the numbers. It’s Reinsdorf’s money, not mine.

zerobs

I’m not uncomfortable offering elite money to elite players. I’m a lot more uncomfortable offering 4 year deals to sub-3 WAR players like Ozuna. I would be talking to Boras right now and ask him to check in with me before his client signs to see if we can fit. Then I take whatever the offer is and offer the same total $$ for one fewer year with an extra year as a vesting option for 10% of the guarantee. So if the offer was 7/255 I offer 6/255 + 1/25.5 as a vesting option (either 450 innings or 450 games played over the final 3 years). I would do that for Cole or Rendon.

Eagle Bones

Can the Sox really be that reactionary in their position? Seems like they need to be more aggressive if they want to make a play for these guys at the top of the market.

MrTopaz

This seems like the playing for second strategy they employed to such great effect last year.

zerobs

It’s the exact opposite. Rather than talk loud and be first in line with an offer and then watch as others wait in the weeds and top your offer, YOU wait in the weeds and top the best offer. I’m not sure how topping the highest offer by 10% is playing for second.

Eagle Bones

Well they could also try being first in line with a real offer as opposed to coming in like 50% below what the player is projected to get.

zerobs

They were first in line with a real offer to Wheeler. I’m not using Machado as the touchstone so much as what happened with Torii Hunter in 07-08.

Eagle Bones

MrTopaz sounds like that’s what he was referencing, but I see your point. I’m not sure the Wheeler process proves anything though. Not every FA pursuit is the same (he seems more like the exception than the rule). With the Yanks apparently holding a special place in Cole’s heart and the two Cali teams around his hometown (not to mention the Sox general suckitude lately), can they really afford to sit back and wait? Seems like aggression is the better play if they really want him.

zerobs

Nobody really knows if aggression is the better play or not. If the money isn’t enough, he didn’t want to be here in the first place. I don’t think Machado wanted to be here and he waited out the market for 3 months while the agent worked hard to get other teams involved.

Eagle Bones

Not hard to guess why Machado didn’t want to be there when they were low-balling the shit out of him all offseason. Even if a team comes to your number eventually (they didn’t), it would leave a pretty bad taste in your mouth.

MrTopaz

I’m saying if we’re willing to pay the money through vesting options, just guarantee the money outright. The Sox absolutely are not in a place where they can bet on a creative offer wooing a premier free agent. If they tell you the number you have to beat, beat it without making the player bet on himself. Sox aren’t anyone’s preferred destination (Abreu notwithstanding), and negotiations with Cole aren’t a two way street. There’s no, “ah, yes, we can do that, but…” He says what he wants, and the Sox provide that, or they give Keuchel a call.

zerobs

It’s not a creative offer. It’s offering the same total value for 1 LESS year, with an additional 10% for an age 36 player. Overall it is higher AAV even with the vesting “discount” (or insurance) year. The other problem you have if you just guarantee the vesting year is that you run into arbitration problems with the younger players since you’re going out 7 years. The Yankees have the revenue to eat multiple bad contracts (like Ellsbury). the Sox do not.

The one advantage of the Yankees signing Cole is that they would probably want to move Hicks off their payroll.

Eagle Bones

You’re going to need to beat these teams by a substantial margin to get Gerrit Cole to come somewhere he doesn’t presumably really want to go.

roke1960

Agreed, Eaglebones. When the Yankees are this serious, they almost always get their man. We just haven’t seen this from them in more than 10 years. But, With Strasburg getting 7/245, Cole will get at least 8/300. And the only way he doesn’t go the the Yanks is if he really wants to play in SoCal and the Dodgers or Angels match the Yanks. I don’t even think it’s in the Sox’ interest to go for him. They can’t afford to lose out on the next tier of pitchers. We just have to hope that Giolito, Kopech or Cease becomes a true ace. And I’d say the odds are decent that at least one of them does.

MrTopaz

If the money is contingent on certain performance milestones, it’s creative enough.

I get what you’re saying, but if the Sox really want a guy of that caliber, just offer the money. Pussyfooting around and trying to entice him with the chance at even more riches isn’t as effective as just offering him those riches. This sort of plan might have worked for Wheeler, but for Cole, you have to come with the big money guaranteed, or else we’re just screwing around.

As Cirensica

If only there was an LH elite outfielder last year available to sign….

Trooper Galactus

Being uncomfortable offering 4-year deals to average-or-better 29-year old players means you’d better hope Basabe or Adolfo breaks out.

As Cirensica

I am not uncomfortable… I was replying (I should have use the tag or quotes) to Zebros when he stated:

I’m not uncomfortable offering elite money to elite players. I’m a lot more uncomfortable offering 4 year deals to sub-3 WAR players like Ozuna.

I think Ozuna is OK. Marte is better. Castellanos is better. Betts is ….wow

Trooper Galactus

I don’t know that Castellanos is really better.

Ozuna bWAR, 2016-19: 2.6, 6.1, 2.9, 2.2
Castellanos: 1.5, 0.8, 2.9, 2.7

Yes, Castellanos is a year younger and has been a better hitter overall in that time, but Ozuna has shown a much higher peak (both offensively and defensively) that he has not necessarily aged past yet. He’s also been much more reliably average or better.

lil jimmy

Kinda makes you think the #11 pick next year should be a pitcher. Right?

MrTopaz

Some how, against all odds, Torkelson makes it to 11. Right handed all bat first baseman/provable DH let’s go!!!!!!!!!!!

In all seriousness, mlb pipeline released their top 100 draft prospects the other day, and Torkelson’s picture has major “42 year old divorced dad” energy.

lil jimmy

thank God He will be gone, and not tempting the White Sox to add to their pile of First Baseman.

Trooper Galactus

I honestly wouldn’t care. If he proves to be an MLB-caliber bat, teams would trade for him. Just get somebody who won’t immediately languish in our system and become a non-asset.

texag10

8/$300M

andyfaust

Yikes. In my offseason plan I suggested they give Cole a blank check, but $300M? I bet he could be had for less than $300M on 8 years. Not that I’m advocating 8 years. With Wheeler and Strasburg getting what they got and Madbum seeking $100M+, Maybe Cole’s contract does approach that though, idk.

andyfaust

I’d like the Sox to sign Keuchel today on a 3-year deal and then other FO’s would count them out on Cole (they probably already were counting them out). Then they could make the dark horse offer tomorrow of $300M or whatever the hell it’s gonna take. Strike first, strike hard, no mercy sir!!!!

Denman

I don’t see any set of circumstances where the Sox end up signing Cole. There’s absolutely no amount of money or contract offer that the Sox could present that the Yankees or another team won’t match or top. Also, as the Wheeler case indicates, once the money is comparable, other, idiosyncratic factors become decisive. And, nothing about Cole says AL central, Chicago, White Sox is where I want to be for the next 7 or 8 years.

roke1960

You are 100 percent correct,denman. Cole is not picking the White Sox over the Yankees, Angels and Dodgers. And it would not surprise me if he gets 9/325 or something better than that. With Strasburg getting 7 years, Boras says he is looking for 9 or 10 years for Cole. And with the way the market is going this winter, he will likely get it. The Sox need to sign Ryu, Keuchel or Bumgarner in the next 48 hours.

metasox

Crazy the way pitchers are going. Ryu may be waiting on the Dodgers so it may come down to the other two. And the Sox aren’t a lock for either.

Trooper Galactus

Remember when people said my 10/275 was crazy money for Cole (like, nobody will pay that). I’m surprised to find that I appear to have significantly undershot the mark, if anything.

iowasox1971

The high price for pitching is why I think we should focus on Puig, who presumably won’t cost as much in dollars or years as Ozuna or Castellanos, for the right field spot.

We need to sign at least one of Ryu, Bumgarner, Keuchel, Porcello, maybe even Wade Miley. Other teams are looking at the same guys, though, and that’s driving up the price.

Our second guy for the rotation might have to be someone like Gio Gonzalez.

We have so many holes to fill on this team, that it’s difficult to address them all through free agency, now that so many other teams are willing to spend.

This is why we should have been more aggressive last offseason, when so many other teams were opting not to spend money.

Eagle Bones

Insert gif of Homer Simpson saying “here we go!”

The Chicago Cubs and the Chicago White Sox are both showing interest in signing pitcher Dallas Keuchel. (Via @MLBBruceLevine)

— Daniel Greenberg (@ChiSportUpdates) December 9, 2019

Yolmer

I was going to write that the Sox should lock Keuchel up now because pitching is really crazy expensive. The Sox should be able to outbid the Cubs, who want to cut payroll. A 4 year deal with $15-18 annual value should do it.

dwjm3

Sigh …here come the declining veterans..

Eagle Bones

I mean, I’d prefer they get in on Cole. But if that’s not an option, I wouldn’t hate Keuchel. Something like Grandal, Ozuna, Keuchel would be pretty nice building blocks for this offseason if not the perfection we all dreamed for.

texag10

We can still theoretically trade for Marte.

MrTopaz

Yeah, this is a scenario where it helps to remember that even if there are much “sexier” options available, pretty much any legit major leaguer is gonna help the Sox a lot.

SonOfCron

I think you can rest assured they are not in on Cole.

dwjm3

I just don’t trust Hahn to evaluate Keuchel

Eagle Bones

I mean, sure. Who do you trust them to evaluate?

dwjm3

Most any front office besides ours 🙂

I fear Hahn dumpster diving in the second and third tier guys.

metasox

Wonder how much evaluating is even going on. Has the feel of musical chairs. Just don’t come home empty handed

Trooper Galactus

There were/are plenty of second and third tier guys who were/are perfectly good options. Sadly, we could be looking at an offseason where we hoped for a first/second tier signing supplemented by a second/third tier signing and instead get a third tier signing with a series of dumpster dives. Still plenty of time and players left, but the more they fall by the wayside the less confident I feel that the White Sox can land something which legitimately bolsters their competitive window.

metasox

Ivan Nova on Line 1

Denman

Nova as a 5th starter who becomes a bullpen swingman if Kopech and Rodon both come through would be an improvement over Covey and Detwiler as 4th and 5th starters. And, I can’t blame Hahn if Wheeler wants to stay east; Strausburg wants to remain a Nat; MadBum prefers remaining a Giant; Ryu wants to stay a Dodger and the Yankees are willing to give part ownership of the franchise to Cole.

Trooper Galactus

Uh, I’ll certainly blame Hahn (and Jerry) for that, because if you need pitching, you fucking do what it takes to lure it in. If Hahn came into an offseason with a large field of good options openly stating he needed to sign two of them and walks away with Ivan Nova and the return of Dylan Covey, that’s a massive fucking failure and not a single fan should give them a pass on it.

Denman

What exactly could Hahn have done to “lure in” Wheeler, Cole or Strausburg? Reportedly, the Giants are talking with MadBum who wants to stay with SF. GM’s can’t force free agent pitchers to sign with their teams. There are still on the market more than 1/2 dozen free agent pitchers who compiled a +2 or better WAR last season. We shall see which, if any, of them the Sox will acquire.

35Shields

What exactly could Hahn have done to “lure in” Wheeler, Cole or Strausburg? Reportedly, the Giants are talking with MadBum who wants to stay with SF. GM’s can’t force free agent pitchers to sign with their teams.

If only there was this sort of thing that the White Sox could give to these players in order to convince them to come play for this team…

Denman

One looks forward to the time when Giolito, Cease and Kopech are highly sought free agent arms who re-sign for less than market value to continue being a part of the White Sox winning tradition.

Trooper Galactus

Yes, I look forward to things that would be highly beneficial and unlikely to happen as well.

Trooper Galactus

The White Sox refuse to overpay for talent while being an organization that has to overpay to get talent to come here. Outside of being an attractive destination for Cubans, there is little luring free agents here outside of cold, hard cash.

Denman

That doesn’t seem to be the case this off-season. They were willing to over-pay for Wheeler; offering the most cash didn’t work. Strausburg was staying with the Nats unless they refused to meet his demands–they met them. There’s no reason to believe that Cole signs with the Sox regardless of what they offer. I get the frustration with the FO’s past failures; but, this off-season is young. Cole and Strausburg weren’t really targets; so far they’ve signed Grandal and missed out on Wheeler for reasons beyond their control. I’m optimistic.

Trooper Galactus

Grandal made me optimistic, but this is feeling like 2016 all over again now. Supposedly they offered the highest amount for Gordon that offseason, and he returned to the Royals for slightly less money. While that turned out for the best (kinda/sorta), it’s just a continuation of top talent either being entirely off the table or just using the White Sox to up the bidding from preferred suitors. And yes, I can blame this front office for bringing them to a point in free agency where they’re seen as a negotiating tool and not a desired destination.

karkovice squad

@Trooper Galactus like 2016 when the big OF free agent signing was Austin Jackson?

Trooper Galactus

Yup, exactly like that. Offseason started off with a bang getting Frazier, and the air slowly fizzled out of the balloon from there. We all knew that wasn’t enough and they wasted another season because they couldn’t be bothered to field a competitive payroll.

And here we are now, with a bottom-third payroll, a large core of talent, actual reinforcements waiting in the minors, and a large field of free agents who can help them win now, and after one huge early move, crickets.

roke1960

They can’t do it to us again, can they? I just can’t believe they would go out of their comfort zone to make a splash for Grandal, offer Wheeler $125M, and then nothing. I still believe they will sign one of the 3 2nd tier lefties, and add Castellanos or Ozuna or a trade piece for the outfield at a minimum. But we’ve been down this road before and it wouldn’t completely surprise me if they didn’t add anybody of significance. If that happens, Hahn will have holy hell to pay at Soxfest.

Trooper Galactus

Grandal might be a record signing for the team, but I wouldn’t exactly call it “out of their comfort zone”. It was an encouraging first step that will be completely moot if they whiff on every top free agent starting pitcher.

texag10

So you’re hoping for the 2015 offseason instead?

roke1960

There is a big difference between now and 2015. The Sox have much more high end talent now than they did then. At least 2 of Robert, Moncada and Eloy should turn out to be perennial all-stars. They need to supplement them with solid 2-3 WAR players. They don’t necessarily need superstars (of course adding one would be great). And in the pitching side, we have to hope that one or two of Cease, Giolito and Kopech can be the equivalent of Sale/Q. Again, adding two solid, if not spectacular pitchers would really help.

An offseason of Grandal, Keuchel, Castellanos, Encarnacion and Teheran would be really good. The problem is, will they even come close to that?

Trooper Galactus

Honestly, singing Castellanos and Encarnacion would feel somewhat like getting Laroche and Melky. I’d feel better about them, but they’re nonetheless limited players who could bottom out at a moment’s notice.

Eagle Bones

I keep thinking this is the parity account, but nope. It’s the real Bruce.

Michael Riley – Ender Inciarte and a pitcher would be players of interest

— Bruce Levine (@MLBBruceLevine) December 9, 2019

andyfaust

I just re-followed Bruce today and was immediately reminded of why I quit following him a long time ago. He tweets like old people text. It’s endearing when it’s your mom, but not so much when it’s from a professional.

Milky✌️

Heads up Josh, this one didn’t hit the patron feed. (And feel better)

SonOfCron

If this is true, this is terrible:

Word from lobby at winter meetings is White Sox offered Strasburg $246 million.

— Gordon Wittenmyer (@GDubCub) December 9, 2019

NDSox12

Pretty sure he was trying to make a (bad) joke.

dwjm3

What a tool

karkovice squad

It’s true but the extra $1m was in coupons for free Popeye’s chicken sandwiches (spicy or original).

Trooper Galactus

Hey, the value on that is only gonna go up!

Pointerbabe

Damn Josh, feel better.  Go inhale some steam or something…

35Shields

When the off-season started, there were 9 available SPs with a Steamer projection of 2+ WAR (8, excluding Odorizzi) and 4 SPs with a 3+ WAR projection.

Now there are four 2+ WAR pitchers remaining and one 3+ WAR pitcher.

Trooper Galactus

Hey, we gotta get them on OUR terms, right?

35Shields

We are getting them on our terms. Jerry doesn’t have to pay any of them a single dime. What’s a better deal than that?

ImmortalTimeTravelMan

We’re going to end up with Tanner Roark and Ivan Nova….

lil jimmy

Fine with me. They started 65 games between them. 4.1 WAR. Over 350 innings pitched.
It’s still going to be up to the young pitchers in house that carry this team through. No single free agent pitcher is going to be the Messiah.

Trooper Galactus

2019 Nova was basically a best-case scenario overall, and the first half of the season was an object lesson in just how close he is to falling off a cliff.