After taking a month off we are back with a new episode of The Sox Machine Podcast to recap the non-tender decisions and the Omar Narvaez for Alex Colome deal this past Friday.
The Rundown:
- Is trading Omar Narvaez for Alex Colome a good decision by Rick Hahn? Why did he decide that it was time to move on from Matt Davidson and Avisail Garcia, and what does the future hold for those two?
- With the Winter Meetings starting next week we share our wish list of players that could provide a significant impact to the White Sox roster.
- Finally we answer your questions in P.O. Sox:
#POSox With Basabe, Robert, and Adolfo all being plus outfielders. Do you think there is any consideration being given to moving Eloy to first base and Abreu to DH?
— Arron (@airflo77) December 2, 2018
Would it make sense to take on some bad salaries like Greinke or Seager from the Mariners if it meant bringing in talent like Haniger, Maxell Smith, Peralta or even Goldschmidt? Though I don’t personally think you’d get much of a discount with Goldschmidt. #POSox
— Paul Riker (@paulriker) December 2, 2018
What kind of stadium would you prefer the Sox build after GRF? Modern like the A’s/Rays. Modern-retro like the rangers/Portland. Or like another stadium. #POSox
— Ben (@MLB_Stuff) December 2, 2018
This episode is brought to you by RXBar. Sox Machine listeners and readers get to save 25% off their best sellers variety pack of protein bars by visiting rxbar.com/sox and use promo code SOX at checkout.
To listen, click play below:
The mariners thing is wild, they are really selling off everything…
If the whitesox took on all the money, why wouldnt they take a shot on a seager/haniger package for a bunch of their middle tier prospect depth guys like (dunning, hansen, rutherford, collins, adolpho, ect)
Seager at a minimum plays a good 3rd base and will hit 20-25 homers, if his BABIP isnt a ridiculous 250 next year his ave and obp numbers will climb. And Haniger would be a great long term piece in RF .
Sox have plenty of money to play with, so they probably wouldnt have to part with too much, and both these guys fill big holes in the lineup.
As I said in the podcast, you just described Mike Moustakas, except Moustakas doesn’t have a .273 OBP in his recent past.
Mike moustakas doesnt come with 4 years of Haninger… the point is to get haniger , and hope for a rebound from seager who like I am saying doesnt bury you by simply being a good defensive 3rd basemen and adding 20-25 homers from the left side of the plate.
Seems like Seattle would benefit from a cheap four years of Haniger and a Seager bounceback more than the White Sox would, because they could then trade them separately. If they’re unloading Haniger to get rid of Seager, then I’d treat that as paying Haniger $20M a year for the next four years.
I saw a report saying they would do anything it takes to move Seager… so if Haniger was a free agent would he be worth the 56 mil owed to seager… I think easily.
Sox can either go big on machado and or harper or they need to get creative.
Keep in tact your top 5 prospects, adsorb the contracts of seager to get haniger while only giving up some of your repetitive middle tier prospects. Have the money to easily still be able to sign Grandal and one of the top FA pitchers…. all of a sudden you are a lot better 2019 squad and your looking very tough in 2020 when a few more of those top tier prospects are up. You would also still have payroll flexibility for some of the more interesting 2019 free agents.
I’m with you here. They take on 19.5 mil. per year for three years. Send Yolmer in the trade, because they will need him. With Eloy, we add a lot of fire power. Upgrade Center Field and you have a solid lineup.
Mlbtr is reportinng the Ms aren’t going to pair Haniger with Seager, but I’d be thrilled with getting Mallex Smith in a package. That’d be a much lower price tag too.
Especially if the White Sox can swing signing Harper. Eloy/Mallex/Bryce is a hell of an outfield and allows Eloy to get pushed to 1b when one of the more defensively minded outfield prospects are MLB ready.
nah mallex smith needs to play corner of, he may be fast on basepaths but it doesnt really translate to the field as his routes are pretty bad thus you really dont want him playing cf… theres a reason he played more games at corner than cf last year
Mallex played 0.2 innings more in the corners than cf. Kiermaier’s elite defense understandably got most of the run in cf for Tampa.
Fangraphs thought cf was Mallex’s only above average position defensively in 2018.
https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13608&position=OF
Great podcast. I am not too fond of that Greinke deal Josh seems to like. That’s a more than 100 M contract left to pay. There is no way Az eats up 60M of it. The White Sox will have to trade away some projectable $ in prospects.
Why paying for the back end of a long contract (worse years of a contract) plus prospects when there are better options available on the free agency that will cost only money?
I do agree that probably the White Sox will need to sign a free agent veteran pitcher to be able to compete and take pressure off the young ones… I rather we extend Carlos Rodon than getting Greinke 35, 36, 37 years.
I don’t think any team would eat more than 50% of a players remaining deal. I think if the D-Backs were willing to pay $30 million of what is remaining more teams would entertain trading for Greinke. 3 years, $75 million would be reasonable.
I’m suggesting Greinke because I believe Patrick Corbin, Nathan Eovaldi, and Dallas Keuchel will go elsewhere. After those three, who is the best remaining SP? If a team wants a SP to help lead a rotation, I still think Greinke can do that.
Starting pitching is overrated nowadays. In recent years, there has been teams making it to the play off with average starting pitching. Having a shutdown bullpen and an amazing defense seems to be the key in modern baseball.
The White Sox needs to find our Wade Davis/Andrew Miller who can take on from the 5th or 6th, and pitch multiple innings. In my opinion, that comes first than signing a veteran SP.
Overpaying for average pitchers is a mistake. But starters who can go 7 innings and give good odds of leaving with the lead are still incredibly valuable because of scarcity.
Per MLB Trade Rumors, “any team interested in trading for Greinke would be taking on a total of $97.5MM over three seasons.”
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/11/latest-on-zack-greinke-2.html
Greinke is tradable with those terms but return would be next to nil.
This. And that would equal to pay retail price for each WAR Greinke can produce. Almost no surplus value here.
I like the idea of getting Greinke, I’m just not sure I like any of the scenarios where the Sox could plausibly get him. If the D-backs eat enough of the contract to provide more than trivial relief, we’ll have to trade something valuable, and then we have to square trading away young guys for a pitcher in his mid-thirties. If Arizona doesn’t send money to the Sox, then we’re back in the payroll crunch where any amount of bad money could hamstring their ability to build a decent team (I’m given to understand it’s happened before).
If I had my druthers, the Sox would get Syndergaard, maybe with the Mets turning around the prospects we send them to flesh out a deal for Kluber.
Also, if we are gonna get a 35 yr starting pitchers, JA Happ will probably provide similar value, and it only costs money
Agreed. But I will say, if the Sox can tick off the other boxes on Josh’s wish list first, then i’ll be down with moving prospects for Greinke. Although, I suppose the same could be said for any deal for Syndergaard.
I wouldn’t hold his age against him. The thing about starting pitchers is that if they’re able to stay in the rotation at his age then their decline is usually slower over the years left on his contract.
In his case, he’s already figured out how to pitch effectively with reduced velocity. Even accounting for being in the NL, his peripherals still look good. And that’s probably in large part because his change and curve are so damn good.
As long as he currently has a clean bill of health, I wouldn’t consider him more risky than other options.
no thx on greinke or corbin if we are gonna pay that kind of money i would rather have a stopgap this year like maybe a happ and go big next year on the bumgarner/sale/gerrit cole market, our team will look much more attractive to those type of guys hopefully next year as well as eloy kopech and cease will bve there and can see robert and madrigal more on the horizon
also if the mariners are considering crawford and a prospect for segura why not make a pitch of anderson and basabe for segura
Caleb Joseph would absolutely be the equivalent of thin scratchy socks as a gift on the sixth night of Rickhahnnukah.
There’s such disparity between the “better” players, and the “possibly good” players. Harper, and Machado are going to get so much more in salary relative to their counterparts (age has a lot to do with it). Would love either. Both could bring back that “Bad Guy” persona that somehow (??♂️) has always coincided with the White Sox (1919 probably?).
In the pitching market, there’s no sense in overspending on the “top of the class” in my opinion. Love the Greinke idea. I’d eat the salary so you could only lose fringe prospects in return. Reds are trying to get one of the statistically best “ground ball” pitchers over recent history. Makes sense. Their ballpark isn’t exactly conducive to fly balls. I like the idea of taking a flier on Clay Buchholz. The White Sox have historically been one of the best teams at keeping players healthy. Buchholz has always had good stuff. Health has been a detriment to his career so far. He also had decent numbers last season. Could be that “diamond in the rough” sort of signing? I’d move Rodon into the Andrew Miller/Brad Hand sort of role. Devastating Fastball/Slider combination. Hasn’t proven capable of handling a full seasons starters work load. Could easily pitch 2 plus innings in an appearance. Shortening the game up massively. Colomé could get his shot to shut it down.
Don’t mind the Davidson move. Avi’s situation stinks. He’s far too expensive to be fair. That became his harbinger. He has still shown much talent (don’t crucify me). His fielding was average at best. Could “sort of” run. Good arm. Willing to go the other way with the baseball at the plate. Showing signs of laying off some of the junk he’d lunge at earlier in his career. Health killed him last year. He may just “catch on” somewhere?
Grandal would be far from my first move. I wouldn’t cry about acquiring his services, but the price is too steep. Would still possibly pay it though. I do like his talents. Cervelli costs talent. There are plenty of catchers that could fill in as backup to Castillo in the current market (or a literal split time situation with Castillo). I’d take a chance with Lucroy possibly as 1a/1b situation. He’s not the only one that could fill that role by any means. Just one that’s more cost efficient, & more short term. Hopefully Collins would be ready by that time. Otherwise other opportunities should present themselves.
Sorry for the “novel”. Never comment usually. I guess a month without your podcast has given me some time to want to speak a bit on my view of things. Love the show! Thanks for your hard work! Happy Holidays!