Jackson, then stonewall

Heard from an exec not involved in the discussions that the White Sox are furious with the Nats over Edwin Jackson.less than a minute ago via web


With only half a day until the deadline, this is where we stand. There may have been miscommunication, but Kenny Williams isn’t happy right now. Combining some Brett Ballantini tweets:

What’s interesting is pregame KW didn’t just point out the irascibility of the new-school GMs, but mentioned he’d talked to several “old-school” GMs who all agreed w/him: “I talked to a # of guys who share my feelings.” Real old vs. new school tension in air. Then consider his borderline derision: “I’m not a guy to play games with,” mocking the “cloak & dagger” behavior … “This is baseball, not espionage. We’re not sharing military secrets…gimme a break.”

This probably won’t end well.
Lest I waste words on Edwin Jackson only to see him get traded, I’m going to hold off on any deep diving on his potential until the deadline. Rizzo may feel some pressure to get a deal done; he’s been conducting this whole Dunn thing like a stooge, telling the Rays he would want Matt Garza in initial talks. The Sun-Times reports Rizzo wanted Carlos Quentin, Gordon Beckham and two pitching prospects for Dunn at first.
However, if the Sox are truly stuck with Jackson, it’s not exactly awful. If they made a mistake, well, the Twins made the same one the day before.
The Twins dealt catcher Wilson Ramos — their most expendable quality prospect with Joe Mauer blocking him for the forseeable future — to Washington for closer Matt Capps. Capps is having a nice year, but he’s also had a not-nice year in his recent past, and he’s never pitched in the AL. That sounds a lot like the guy he’s replacing in the Twins’ closer role, Jon Rauch.
Capps is making $3.5 million, and will probably make more than $5 million in his final year of arbitration. That gives Minnesota two big salaries in the back end of their bullpen, with a couple of hard decisions to make on Matt Guerrier and Rauch in ther finals years (Rauch could accept arbitration if the year doesn’t end well).
Acquiring Capps does likely improve Minnesota’s chances for this year and the next, and that’s what Twins fans have going for them.
We can probably regard Jackson in the same way. He’s likely an improvement over Daniel Hudson, and he’s also Freddy Garcia insurance.  It’s a high price to pay, as it’ll push the 2011 rotation’s total cost to the neighborhood of $50 million, but something has been accomplished.
There’s one fatal flaw with Jackson, though. He could very well be the next Matt Thornton or Gavin Floyd, because Williams has mentioned a delivery correction as a way to improve his performance, and not the wishcasty “change of scenery.” It’s not unreasonable, considering the season he put together for Detroit in 2009.
But let’s say Jackson sticks with the Sox, dusts himself off and finishes 2011 with 14 wins, 210 innings and an ERA+ of 110 or better.
His agent is Scott Boras.
This probably won’t end well.
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At South Side Sox, thecip summed it up beautifully:

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Congratulations to Lucas Harrell, who picked up his first major-league win in between departing and joining the Charlotte Knights.
It gives me another reason to link to an article I wrote in 2004 while at Mizzou, when Harrell led his team to the Missouri state baseball championship. He was drafted by the Sox two days later.
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Minor league roundup:

  • Louisville 5, Charlotte 2
    • Tyler Flowers singled twice and walked once over four PAs.
    • Brent Morel went 2-for-4 with a strikeout.
    • Jordan Danks doubled and struck out twice; Alejandro De Aza also went 1-for-4.
    • Stefan Gartrell hit a solo shot, his 21st.
    • Clevelan Santeliz allowed a run (solo shot) on two hits over two innings in his return from injury. He struck out one.
  • Birmingham 15, Chattanooga 4
    • Eduardo Escobar hit his first Double-A homer during a 3-for-5 night.
    • Christian Marrero went 2-for-4 with a walk and two RBI.
    • Justin Greene was 0-for-3 with a walk.
  • Myrtle Beach 9, Winston-Salem 6 (Game 1, 7 innings)
    • Josh Phegley went 1-for-2 with a walk in his first game since July 5.
    • Brandon Short singled and doubled over three ABs.
    • Jon Gilmore went 1-for-4 with an RBI; Jose Martinez 0-for-3 with a K.
    • Stephen Sauer allowed six runs on nine hits over five innings, walking two and striking out three.
  • Myrtle Beach 11, Winston-Salem 1 (Game 2, 7 innings)
    • Terry Doyle: 5 IP, 5 H, 6 R, 5 ER, 2 BB, 6 K.
    • Short singled, walked and struck out twice. He was caught stealing, too.
    • Jon Gilmore went 1-for-4 again.
  • Hickory 3, Kannapolis 2
    • Andre Rienzo had another successful start: 7 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 8 K.
    • Miguel Gonzalez went 1-for-3 with a double.
    • Kyle Colligan drew a walk over four PAs.
    • Tyler Saladino went 0-for-4 with a K; Nick Ciolli 1-for-4.
  • Greeneville 5, Bristol 4
    • Rangel Ravelo went 2-for-3 with a double and an RBI. He also laid down a sac bunt.
    • Daniel Black was 1-for-5 with a strikeout.
  • Great Falls 5, Helena 3
    • Andy Wilkins singled, walked three times and struck out.
    • Ross Wilson was 0-for-3 with a walk.
    • Thomas Royse pitched just one inning, allowing a walk and a hit but no runs.
    • Addison Reed struck out two in a 1-2-3 inning.
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Jim Margalus
Jim Margalus

Writing about the White Sox for a 16th season, first here, then at South Side Sox, and now here again. Let’s talk curling.

Articles: 3793
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mechanicalturk

This should make for some compelling television.
Also, poor Edwin Jackson. He’s now on the fifth team of his young career, traded from somewhere he just threw a no hitter to a team that apparently doesn’t want him and are furious they might be stuck with him. Sure, he walks a lot of people, but he doesn’t deserve THIS.
At least now I can post this: http://photos.haskell-dowland.com/content/binary/rizzo.jpg

3oooooooo

I have to wonder about Jackson’s coachability and makeup. His first two clubs traded him for questionable returns (Baez, Joyce) and when he seemingly puts everything together for the Tigers, he’s immediately shipped off again (though this could simply be “selling high”).
So with this past and in the midst of a disappointing season, how did a guy like Jackson come to be a deal breaker for for the Nats? I’m having trouble understanding this. One thing I did notice is that Rizzo has worked for both the White Sox and more recently the Diamondbacks in the past… /foil hat
Hopefully today’s proceedings will render all of this discussion moot

onlysoxfaninboston

I agree with your overall assessment. I also don’t think Kenny and his crew are ones to leak (i think justified) bitter words of another GM that they were negotiating with to reporters, so there will be repercussions.
Should Jackson leave for free agency after 2011, he should have at least type B status.

ricksch

I think it’s time for Kenny to call in Luca Brazzi and send Rizzo a message — what a low-life pezzenovante! Guy sounds like an absolute joke and an insult to his profession — Quentin, Beckham and two prospects for a rent-a-player????

soxfan1

I like the Hudson-Jackson deal from a talent standpoint. The price tag is high ($8mil+) but I think Jackson will be solid this year and next with Peavy being questionable for 2011 with his strange injury. It’s only money!

bigfun

Brief control of a “solid” expensive pitcher is not as good as long-term control of a potentially very good and cheap pitcher.

blah

Cowley said the Sox pegged Hudson as a 5th starter at best…
http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/20001287340

bigfun

That’s a good point and we’ve certainly seen it from the Sox before (McCarthy, Poreda, etc.) But it doesn’t really matter – Hudson was well-regarded by prospect watchers and there seemed to be interest from other teams. They could have gotten more than Edwin Jackson for him.

blah

I’m just not in love with the “Coop can fix ’em” approach. I do think Jackson has unrealized potential however, though the career WHIP and bb% are very disturbing. Unlike Hudson though, Jackson has thrown 200 innings before. In a pennant race, especially with Garcia in the rotation and Peavy not, that in itself has value.

sars

goldstein tweeted that lots of scouts are split on hudson; at best a #3 for some, no more than a pen arm for others. i think one thing is that hudson’s stuffed is maxed out. there’s very little projection in his arm and ability. you’d think success would come quickly for a fast-tracker.
methinks the white sox are high on sale and hope he can actually be the peavy insurance for 2011. where jackson fits in; i have no idea. it’s baffling, kind of, but he’s got quite an arm and the white sox have done well with ‘stuff’ guys in the past.

blah

Except for Javier Vazquez

sars

…who was only a 5 win pitcher every year he was here (4.8, 5.1, 4.8)

sars

it’s true…WAR really values low HR rates and vazquez has never shown that skill. still, a 5 win pitcher is a 5 win pitcher and that’s pretty valuable. much more valuable than anything jackson’s ever been.

soxexile

Jackson can certainly function as Freddy’s replacement in 2011, assuming Peavy comes back healthy, and Freddy gets somebody to overspend in the free agent market this winter. I’m just not sure Hudson wouldn’t have done so just as well, and a lot cheaper. I have to think that this was a gamble to get Dunn that didn’t work. I wouldn’t have traded Hudson even up for Dunn because of the risk of losing Dunn in the winter, so I’m even less enthusiastic about this.

ricksch

I really think Williams miscalculated here, and not just because he may have been screwed by Rizzo. Thing is, as hot as the Sox have been, they still don’t look to have the horses to go very far in the playoffs — should they manage to beat out the Twins. None of the wins through this streak came against the Rays or the Yankees — who clearly are the teams to beat this year. Bottom line, losing Peavy was massive. Peavy’s a #1 when he’s right. You just don’t replace a #1 with a guy who’s struggled as often as Edwin Jackson.
Now the Sox are talking up Jackson and his “experience” vs. Kid Hudson. But how can we believe that crock when the plan was to flip him? Fans always want look through rose colored glasses, but objectively I don’t see how this puts us in a position where you’d think maybe we could win this whole thing — which is the only reason for giving up on young pitcher with a nice upside who’s low salary allows you to spend on other roster spots.
Additionally, Williams fails to get a bat, leaving us in the unenviable position of waiting for Teahen to finish his rehab. They might pick someone up on the wire down the road, but we need a bat NOW to keep Kotsay and Jones out of the line-up and it’s doubtful a “difference maker” is going to get through waivers.
There are times to go “all in” and there are other times to hedge your bets. The economics of this move suck to the extreme and will come back to bite us in the ass.

ricksch

What’s perhaps most important to note here is that we could have waited out Hudson to see if he would have gotten into a groove after getting passed the deadline.
Because it’s quite likely we could have scooped up an innings-eater off waivers who is as good or better than Jackson and with a salary that won’t choke off roster moves for next year. Tying up $8 mil on Jackson for 2011 is just plain stupid. He becomes another untradeable contract like Linebrink and Teahen. And what if Peavy doesn’t come back or gets hurt again? How many hefty, non-performing contracts can a team that draws so poorly (even when they’re in first place) afford?

ricksch

Now THAT sounds like wishcasting to me Jim. Teahen COULD hit .340 and knock in 40 runs after he comes back too!
Unfortunately, Jackson was leading the NL in earned runs in a park more pitcher-friendly than the Cell and in a league where the pitcher hits. Paint all the lipstick you want on this pig. This is a bad trade for now and a disaster for next year and every year we could have had Hudson under contract for little money.

dudeman

Am I missing something?
Is KW saying that Rizzo verbally agreed to a deal and then backed out after the Sox took the necessary step? If that is the case, then Rizzo really is a total clown.
No doubt, he was nuts to think Dunn was worth Beckham and TCQ, but unless he actually broke his word, that only qualifies him as a moron.
Is KW saying that Rizzo is just a total moron or is he saying that the guy is a straight up liar?