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It’s not like anybody would take him anyways. With those numbers and that contract, he’s literally untradeable.
Posted by Kevbo | June 11, 2010, 2:42 amI told you Peavy had some Big Z in him.
Posted by cushinglee | June 11, 2010, 5:19 amThe spiraling trend downward started after the 2006 season and then hit overdrive after the 2008 season and 2010 is the stuff those two off season sh*t out. We got nothing in return for swisher, that may be the worse trade I have ever seen, before. And we received nothing for vazquez from atlanta, other than flowers (which his mlb worth is in serious question due to his lack of ability to hit the ball even at a mediocre .250 clip) and mind you atlanta turned around and received melky cabrera from the yankees, an up and coming young outfielder and you’re telling me we couldn’t pry anything better than tyler flowers away from the braves? Ozzie and Kenny can’t co-exist and one of them has to go. I lean towards keeping Ozzie because overall I think he is an above average manager (I don’t see the Sox bringing in anyone better) and I think, given a decent team to work with, he can get good results. Jenks gotta go, he couldn’t save a drowning kid from a pool right now, I’d march him out there to only lower his ERA and up his trade value. Putz won’t come back because he wants to be a closer, so trade him too. And please, for god’s sake, bring in some bench players that are better than, wait for it…jayson nix, brent lilibridge and mark kotsay. I left andruw jones off because, well, he’s only getting 500k this year, so you get what you pay for. There’s a reason nobody else wanted him in the off season. When teams like the Rangers were persuing Vlad Guerrero, we went after Andruw Jones. I’m calling for Kenny’s head. I think he was lucky in 2005, that Pods lived up to his end of the deal in the Carlos Lee trade and I think he was lucky the Orland Hernandez and Jose Contreras found the fountain of youth at just the right moment.
Posted by blacksox56 | June 11, 2010, 8:12 amTyler Flowers’ overall minor league numbers are very good, and as Jim has noted, his recent slump may well just be a Don Cooper mechanical issue.
And what about Santos Rodriguez and Jonathan Gilmore? Rodriguez is a ways from the majors but he’s still young and has elite strikeout numbers. Gilmore is also young and is having a very good year; we probably won’t know if he’s a major league contributor until he faces AA pitching, but he was certainly worth trading for.
And seriously, Melky Cabrera? So “up and coming” to you is a 25-year-old with a .634 OPS?
Posted by bigfun | June 11, 2010, 10:30 amMy biggest fear after 2005 was that this organizartion would lose perspective on hyow and why it won a WC and that no one would be accountable going forward if things blew up. That’s what seems to bwe happening now.
I never thought that Kenny was a very good GM. Those that like him seem to remember how bad Ron Schueler was and how reticent Schueler was at making the ‘prospect for veteran’ deals to improve the team. Well, when I look at the Swisher, Pierre, and Peavy deals, I cerftainly don’t want Schueler back but I do want someone who recognizes the value of developing and RETAINING younger players.
Posted by chisoxt | June 11, 2010, 8:47 amThis is crap. The sum of a gm is certainly more than 3 deals. And last I looked it’s way too early to be claiming anything on Peavy, disappointing start or not. Methinks last year you probably had Rios on your “list”. Im not absolving KW for recent moves, he deserves some jibes for off season roster construction, but I have zero issue with the Peavy deal. Pierre is blah and more a failure to maximize a situation.
Posted by tdogg | June 11, 2010, 10:49 amThis is crap too. For every good move Williams has made since after we won in 2005, I guarantee I can name 2 that were terrible.
Posted by jimbo | June 11, 2010, 10:41 pmGrowing real freaking tired of Jake Peavy saying fucking anything, that “bulldog” needs to get a lease put on him fast, and maybe someone ought to hit him over the head with a rolled up newspaper. HE IS FAR AND AWAY REASON 1 why this team blows.
Cooper was on the score totally downplaying the kenny vs ozzie rift but there seems to be way to much smoke for there not to be some fire.
@jim, I still like Tampa as a trade partner, I know you think they are going for it by playing well and keeping crawford but they still have 3 regulars in the lineup hitting 240, 220, and 190 and a starter in the rotation with a 5 era, and EVERY team needs bullpen help regardless of where they are in the standings.
Posted by knoxfire30 | June 11, 2010, 10:13 amKonerko to Tampa makes sense, although I don’t think the Sox will get more than a B or C prospect (depending on how much money goes with him) in that deal.
As for the bullpen, who do you think Tampa would be trying to upgrade? They have a whole collection of guys as good as or better than Putz and Jenks. Maybe they could do better than Choate, but they’re not going to trade for Thornton just to use him as a LOOGY.
And their starting rotation is awesome, a #5 pitcher with a 4.91 ERA isn’t exactly sinking them. And Hellickson could replace Wade mid-season if necessary.
Posted by bigfun | June 11, 2010, 10:44 amI like Peavy and think he will be fine overall, but Jim is right. He needs to shut his trap. He’s on the frontline with Q and Beckham for disappointments this season.
Posted by tdogg | June 11, 2010, 10:56 amI still dislike the Peavy trade as much as ever, but if you guys want a silver lining on the Jake Peavy trade, this is it:
Dexter Carter 2010: 1.526 WHIP, 5.7 BB/9
Aaron Poreda 2010: 1.76 WHIP, 9.4 BB/9 (26 walks in 25 innings, holy crap)
Clayton Richard has been great for the Padres, but if the Sox did sell high on Poreda and Carter that at least is comforting.
Posted by bigfun | June 11, 2010, 11:21 amI don’t have a problem with Peavy encouraging the front office to let the guys try to work through the problems with this season – my problem is with saying “trade me if you’re going to rebuild.” Maybe behind closed doors, let Kenny know that. But leaders don’t come out and say “I’m only committed to this team if personnel decisions go the way I think they should.”
Our schedule in the next couple weeks is favorable (and playing NL teams, maybe Peavy might remember how to pitch) and after the Twins and Tigers both looking mediocre, there’s hope that we could close the gap some – of course, then we’d go on a losing streak that turns the season into a fiery wreck, kicking the entire fan base right in the nuts. That’s White Sox optimism right there.
Posted by Shinons | June 11, 2010, 11:32 amI don’t think it’s Kenny’s or Ozzie’s fault this team sucks. It’s the player’s faults. We dropped Contreras and Colon for Garcia and Peavy and we end up going from the second best rotation to the worst? You can’t blame that on Kenny or Ozzie or the coaches. Sure we expected the offense to suck too but not this bad. If Quentin, Pierzynski and Beckham batted .250 we’d be a better team.
If someone has to go I say Ozzie. He’s lost the players. The clubhouse atmosphere has to suck. He’s a drama queen. He has a big mouth. Boston got off to a bad start but turned it around. Angels got off to a bad start but turned it around. Atlanta got off to a bad start but turned it around. Our team is just as good as any of those team, talent wise. What’s the difference??? Management.
Unemployment is what 10%? And he’s bragging about how much money he has??? What a f$cking scrub.
Posted by striker | June 11, 2010, 11:39 amOur team is not nearly as good, talent wise, as any of those teams, especially Boston. They turned it around because they had good players.
I’ll agree with you that no one could have foreseen how bad the pitching could have been, but the offense is not that far under where it was projected to be. The blame there is absolutely on Kenny and Ozzie.
Posted by bigfun | June 11, 2010, 11:49 amYeah? Where did you project Beckham, Pierzynski, Quentin to be batting at this point in the season? .200?
Posted by striker | June 11, 2010, 11:51 amOf course some guys will perform below their projections. But if the Sox had more guys with higher ceilings they could survive those disappointments.
Good players performing below expectations + mediocre players performing to expectations = mediocre team (the White Sox)
Good players performing below expectations + other good players performing equal to or above expectations = good team (e.g., the Rays, who have done very well even though Pena and Upton, two very important hitters, have struggled all year)
Posted by bigfun | June 11, 2010, 12:11 pmNice observation bigfun.
Posted by blah | June 11, 2010, 12:15 pmBTW, I know everyone else is ready to throw in the towel but I’m not. I still say we can take this division. If we get within 6 games by the all star break then we are within striking distance. The starting pitching needs to turn it around, we need a real DH and the hitters need to hit.
I think if we win and especially sweep this series with the Cubs that we go for a good run. The Cubs are hurting so we should be favorites.
Posted by striker | June 11, 2010, 11:50 amYeah, the Cubs are hurting. Nevermind the fact the White Sox have only won two games in a row 5 times. That is a statistic for a mediocre team at best. 60 games in you are what you are. The White Sox are a bad team. Even or this division. I’ll be surprised if the Sox aren’t swept this weekend. Cubs starting pitching has been way better.
Posted by blah | June 11, 2010, 12:14 pmNot trying to sound blindly soxtimistic, but this team could very much have a surge in wins before All Star game, mainly because the starting pitching is now piecing together good back to back starts, unlike end of May and beginning of June. The hitting has been getting hotter, more big hits coming from Quentin and Alexei and Juan Pierre. The batting averages haven’t surged as much but the situational hitting has, and we continue to see big run innings from the offense, and getting on board early. My suggestion, if we retool, because rebuilding is a swear word, is see what the Sox can get for AJ Pierzinski and Bobby Jenks. Two coveted players on the list of some major league teams. Try to get a left handed big hit run producer, under the age of 40 please, additionally a prospect catcher and/or lefty bullpen stopper. Ramon Castro is hitting bitter than A.J. right now, has more power burst, better arm to throw out runners, and is a stout veteran behind the plate. Castro would probably be better at cultivating youth behind the plate than AJ the A-Hole. Not a guy who’s known to be mentor to anyone.
Posted by soxicano | June 11, 2010, 12:19 pmHitting better than AJ i meant.
Posted by soxicano | June 11, 2010, 12:21 pmI agree with you. And the Twins are no powerhouse team either. Unless you get blown out of the water with a trade then you keep everyone and hope they turn it around.
Posted by striker | June 11, 2010, 12:50 pmThe Twins have a top five offense by wOBA (largely due to a top three BB%) and the seventh best ERA (fourth best FIP) in baseball. Sounds like a powerhouse to me, especially in the AL Central.
Posted by bigfun | June 11, 2010, 1:21 pmhaha ok all you optimists let me ask you this about the sox winning this division, which i personally think is about 100-1 shot at this poitn
what are the chances the twins play 500 ball the rest of the way and go 51-51 from here on in?
then, what are the chances the sox play 17 games over from here on in and go on a tear of 60-43 on the way in
combine those two brutally unlikely scenarios and arrive at both teams finishing at 86-76
ITS OVAH!!!!!
Posted by knoxfire30 | June 11, 2010, 12:57 pmok last season the twins ended 86-76 right? They were 56-62 at two thirds through looking like a third place cellar dweller twin. Much like the Sox. I would say 50-50 chance conditioned on the sox hitting continuing to improve and the starting rotation putting together a solid second half. Not out of the picture. Just gloomy feeling right now.
Posted by soxicano | June 11, 2010, 1:20 pmMaybe im reading this wrong but you think their is a 50-50 chance the sox win this division??? Thats not optimistic thats just ignoring the facts.
Posted by knoxfire30 | June 11, 2010, 2:03 pmnot to mention your twins record includes the month and a half or so they were without the mvp, the sox have played the entire season in basically full health and the teahen injury actually has made our team better since omar has hit and played defense very well since he went down
Posted by knoxfire30 | June 11, 2010, 2:12 pmAlright:
1. What are the odds the Sox returned the same exact team to the field in 2011 and they do this bad again?
2. What are the odds the Sox rebuild and field a contender in the next 3 years?
I agree the odds of winning the division aren’t the best this year but it’s still probable. And I’d rather take that chance then take some chance at some half assed rebuilding approach.
Posted by striker | June 12, 2010, 12:01 amYeah Knox is absolutely right here.
Baseball Prospectus estimates playoff odds by simulating the rest of the season a million times and they have the Sox at a 3.5% chance to win the division.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php
Non-SABR places like Cool Standings also estimate the White Sox in the 3-4% range.
Posted by bigfun | June 11, 2010, 2:30 pm