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I was having a hard time getting too peeved at this trade, or the off-season for that matter, until this:
Williams has now sunk $11 million into nonessential players who stand a noticeable chance of making the team worse.
That’s more than guys like Chone Figgins ($9 million) and Hideki Matsui ($6.5M) will make in 2009 — guys who would have filled three or four needs instead of one, one-and-a-half of them.
Now, I hate it. If this team goes into the season with Vizquel and A. Jones as its DH’s, then I’ll see you all in 2012.
Posted by john | December 16, 2009, 12:48 amI have an irrational hope that Andruw starts hitting like Manny Ramirez, Pierre OBPs .375, Paulie dings 35 and hits 290, and each member of the starting rotation enjoys adequate+ defense and stays between 2.5-4.0 ERA.
Irrationality is FUN.
Posted by pander | December 16, 2009, 1:56 amI haven’t looked it up, but isn’t Pierre old too? Not Visquel old (obviously), but not a spring chicken by any means either.
There is only one thing that made me smile when I read about this trade; a bunch of posts from Cub fans saying how much they wish they hadn’t got rid of Pierre. This is not enough to make me happy about the trade, but it’s something.
and nice Gazoo.
Posted by iowaoaks | December 16, 2009, 8:17 amI believe Pierre is 32, 2 years younger than Scott Podsednik.
Posted by ceverettsdinosaurs | December 16, 2009, 9:02 amWell. Hmm, maybe this isn’t so bad after all… though that OPS is pretty terrible.
and the name (ceverettsdinosaurs) is awesome. I always think about his comments when I re-watch the 2005 world series.
Posted by iowaoaks | December 16, 2009, 6:22 pmI’ll reserve any doubt I have for opening day, the day the roster matters. I do think the moves KW has made have filled holes but I also agree that we are missing that left handed bat that the opposing manager brings in a LOOGY for.
Posted by striker | December 16, 2009, 8:58 amThe starting staff is strong, the pen looks alright, the bench seems alright, and I think the lineup atleast makes sense now. Big DH bat or not this season will still only go as far as Quentin and Rios take it. If TCQ is back to 08 levels and Rios mirrors the former all star this teams potential is unlimited if they both flounder then this team is likely sunk. A nick johnson, jim thome or hank blalock type acquistion to help the DH spot out likely wont be the difference. Having said that, I still think kenny will add one of those type guys.
Posted by knoxfire30 | December 16, 2009, 9:33 amNot having a permanent DH could actually help Quentin keep his feet in good shape because we can rotate him in to the DH spot. I’m not sure if his feet had anything to do with his defensive decline last year but it couldn’t hurt to keep him off his feet a little a couple times a week. I’ve read that sometimes traveling can cause plantar fasciitis to flare up, maybe it’d be worth it to rotate him into those spots the day after long flights out to the coasts.
That being said, I don’t like that signing all these veterans and possible a DH could spell the end for Jayson Nix. Not that I think he’s a great player, but he’s got a pretty good glove and is out of options. I’d hate to see one of these veterans go down with an injury and not have a competent backup in the high minors (maybe Rethorford but he’s unproven) that we can bring up in that event.
Posted by ceverettsdinosaurs | December 16, 2009, 10:05 amYou nailed it Knox — and even if the Sox had acquired Figgins and Matsui, the truth of the matter is they are counting on some big production from Quentin and Rios. I notice most people have Q batting third in their possible line-up. That’s the spot usually reserved for your best hitter. What’s Q’s lifetime average? Has a played a full year of baseball without getting hurt? Okay, Carlos showed us his upside in ’08 before he broke his own hand. He’s earned another shot and IF he’s healthy, we’ll see. As far as Rios goes, God help us that this guy won’t just mail it in for the duration of a contract that could addle the team for years to come. I also agree that KW will add a discount DH. We do NOT need Nix on the roster. Let him learn how to play defense in AAA. If AR, Beck or Viz get hurt, THEN call him up. My biggest hope/worry at this point is that KW plans to replace Randy Williams.
Posted by ricksch | December 16, 2009, 10:37 amI agree that having Nix is not essential, but he’s out of options. So, if we wanted to send him to the minors we’d risk losing him to another team or he could elect free agency. Either way, that leaves us without any middle infield backup should the 40+ year old Vizquel go down with an injury, or, even worse, one of the starters goes down. Although I like the progress of Retherford to date, I’m not sure he’s ready to count on at the major league level, especially early in the season.
Posted by ceverettsdinosaurs | December 16, 2009, 10:45 amQuentin has suffered significant injuries in three straight seasons.
Rios has declined in three straight seasons.
Not doing anything significant to insure yourself against a pair of scary trends doesn’t seem like sound strategy for a guy who is that concerned about attendance.
And if Randy Williams is the biggest problem remaining, I’ll have what you’re having. He was fine last year once Ozzie Guillen figured out that he shouldn’t face right-handers in any big situation. The Randy Williams Problem was previously the Jimmy Gobble Problem, Horacio Ramirez Problem, Mike Myers Problem and Boone Logan Problem, which means it’s an Ozzie Guillen Problem.
At this point, I’d like to see the Sox ditch the second lefty (since Guillen has proved he wants a second lefty but can’t use one) and just use Linebrink and his reverse splits as a LOOGYish type.
Posted by Jim Margalus | December 16, 2009, 10:53 am“Rios has declined in three straight seasons.”
Rios was brutally unlucky in 2009, I think it’s unfair to suggest that’s part of a decline in skills. Every projection system I have seen has him returning to close to his 2008 level, and at his age, a return to his 2006-2007 level is not out of the question either.
There are four or five guys in this lineup who are more worrisome for 2010 than Rios, people are just freaking out over small sample size.
Posted by bigfun | December 16, 2009, 1:52 pmRios wasn’t unlucky with the Sox. He was genuinely f’d up.
I don’t think he’s that bad, but his numbers were sliding from years past even before joining the Sox. It might not be a top concern, but it’s a legitimate one.
Posted by Jim Margalus | December 16, 2009, 3:55 pmI like the deal for Pierre! When he filled in for Manny, the birdbrain, last year he was great. I see him adding the same spark to the Chisox that Scotty Pods did in 2005.
Looking at 2009 salaries only is not a valid comparison. All of these guys are involved in multi-year packages. It’s just not as simple as looking at 2009 comparisons.
Posted by soxfan1 | December 16, 2009, 10:40 amWithout Manny last year, the Dodgers plugged in Pierre and went 29-21 (the best record in the National League over that span) and Juan Pierre hit .318/.381/.411, 21/28 SB during that time.
Posted by ceverettsdinosaurs | December 16, 2009, 11:07 amSo, did we sign that Pierre (the good one) or the other one?
Posted by iowaoaks | December 16, 2009, 6:27 pmProbably less likely it’s the guy who was really good for one month and more likely it’s the guy who was mediocre for, uh, the other nine seasons.
Posted by bigfun | December 17, 2009, 10:18 amSIGN JACK CUST 2010
Posted by marshlands | December 16, 2009, 12:51 pmI speak more from resignation about what the team is willing to do, more than from what I believe they NEED to do to win this year. Based on past performance, Quentin and Rios are longshots to be the producers we need them to be. I’m just grateful that with Pods gone and two (maybe three if Jones is on the treadmill instead of at the Outback) new guys with some glove added to the team, they won’t play defense like the Keystone Cops. It was sickening to watch them in the field and run the bases last year. Ozzie and KW are making the team better fundamentally, which is why it’s doubtful they’ll add SO King Cust. He’ll probably cost about two mil, but may have to settle for less. If Thome would offer the Sox a local deal, I wouldn’t mind seeing him get 400 ABs.
Probably the best news of all is that all we have to do is beat the Twins this year to make the playoffs — which, if you’ve been a Sox fan for any length of time — remains a rarity. We do have better pitching and they are out of that dome.
Posted by ricksch | December 16, 2009, 1:41 pmThe Twins seem like the favorites to me too, but this is selling the Tigers short. They still have a lot of talent on the roster and should definitely contend in 2010 even if they don’t add any other pieces.
Posted by bigfun | December 16, 2009, 1:54 pm