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Jim, your pictures, above everything else, are always worth coming to this site for. I’ll be sending all my loser Twin fan friends the link so they too can cry. HA! HA!
Do you really think there is room for Thome to return?
Posted by iowaoaks | October 12, 2009, 8:24 amNo pony, he’ll like that!
Posted by JJ | October 12, 2009, 9:06 amI loved punto over running third and getting gunned out, however it was the lesser of two evils as the broadcasters and inevitabally the media had another “heads up” derek jeter moment to stroke themselves over.
Thome for 4 mil or under sure, over that NO.
I thought Nathan looked horrible in the series visably nervous and shakin, so I went back to look at if this was just a fluke but it really isnt, granted its minimum innings pitched but his postseason numbers are pretty terrible.
The house of horrors is gone, but thats just in baseball so far that vikings team will give chicago enough to worry about in the immediate future.
Posted by knoxfire30 | October 12, 2009, 9:45 amPapelbon, Wagner and Nathan’s failures in the playoffs just go to tell you that there is no gurantees in the bullpen. I wonder if anyone has changed their mind about trading Jenks.
I’m with Knox, $4mil or less for Thome and I’m fine with that. I also don’t want him batting sooner than 5th in the lineup. A #3 or #4 hitter has to hit .280 or better, regardless of OBP, IMO.
Posted by striker | October 12, 2009, 12:07 pmAdd Huston Street to that list.
Posted by striker | October 12, 2009, 10:01 pmNone of my non-White Sox fan friends understood why I laughed maniacally when Punto was tagged out–I finally have the image to express my feelings.
Posted by therestoomuchlove | October 12, 2009, 12:18 pmSome opinions here are pretty fucking awful.
First, he’s old and slow, but he’s built for the DH position, but let’s look at a sobering fact.
He had a down year for OBP, and take a wild swing where it placed him amongst the Sox this season. If you guessed anywhere but first you’re wrong. With an OPS above .850, that is still a damn potent bat, AVG be damned. He stayed roughly even rate-wise, and simply found fewer ABs because of the glut of sub-par OFs Ozzie wanted to play in the 2nd half.
Second, the last time he made under $8 mil was when the internet was going to make people hundreds of billions of dollars. He is not going to decide to cut his salary by 75% for the privilege of coming back to the south side. I see a 2 year $11-14m contract, possibly incentive-laden.
He really has been the most consistent force for the last half decade for the Sox, and it’s stupid to place a ceiling around $4m for his services. And mind you I’m completely ignoring any clubhouse effects he brings as well (see another lefty ‘power bat’: Bradley, Milton).
Now DYE for $4…that’d be very tempting.
Posted by pander | October 12, 2009, 1:27 pm2 years 11-14 million with incentives, your right their are some fucking awful opinions here.
Have you seen the where the current market place is at???
And on offense alone Thome still gets it done, I like him, he gets on, drives in runs, hits some homers, but the value a lot of teams have that the sox dont with a set dh is being allowed to gain rest for other players. Say the sox invest in Nick Johnson or Hank Blalock, they wont put up Thomes numbers but the increase in numbers for keeping CQ, Konerko, and AJ possibly fresh by having chances to DH them would more then make up for it.
Posted by knoxfire30 | October 12, 2009, 2:32 pmUgh, the grammar in that second sentence is awful. What I was trying to get it at was that even though he’s old and slow, he’s still the best we could possibly do at any price.
Posted by pander | October 12, 2009, 1:27 pmYour grammar was so awful I think you should kill yourself.
Seriously, the rantings found in the comments section of blogs (even a blog as fine as this one) are so nonsensical that all you need to do to obtain respectability is use “your” and you’re” (interchangeably even!) instead of “ur/u r”.
With Thome’s reduced playing time due to age and injury combined with his declining skills, I think a 4 million base contract with an incentive-laden clause working his way up to 8 million would be fair. Throw in a big bonus if he hits 600 HR. I loved Dye, but I think it’s time to part ways. I’d move Quentin to right and see if we can snag an Abreu type player on a short contract for left until some of our other prospects develop. It’s been a long time since one of our OF prospects actually did anything for this team that didn’t involve getting traded for parts.
Posted by conor | October 12, 2009, 1:58 pmEven better, Punto tried to use the fans as an excuse as to why he ran through the stop sign. “TOO MANY PEOPLE SHOUTING! CAN’T CONCENTRATE!!”
Posted by john | October 12, 2009, 1:45 pmHey, he’s an artist of the grit.
Posted by Jim Margalus | October 12, 2009, 4:00 pmThere’s a whole lot of problems with Thome coming back, though if it was at a solid discount ($4M-$6M) I’d probably be okay with it.
Using FanGraphs (RAR/WAR and Value) rankings, Thome was worth roughly $6M this year, while last year he was worth $9M. Still not close to what he was actually making (around $14M). But anyway.
Thome’s still a solid hitter, but the problem here is, what good does it really do the Sox? If Tyler Flowers has any sort of future, I’d like to think he would spend most of next year in the DH spot (especially given the way AJ decided to have a career year with the bat). On the flipside, if they think they are any sort of contender (which I’m sure they do think), Thome definitely isn’t a bad bat to have, especially if it’s at a discount.
Posted by marshlands | October 12, 2009, 3:32 pmI really hope the Sox avoid using Flowers as a DH for two reasons.
No. 1: He just became an adequate catcher this year. He still has some work to do defensively, and I’d hate to see his progress stall.
No. 2: Considering he struck out eight times in 20 plate appearances, he could have a rough major-league transition. DH isn’t the place to struggle; you can get by with a catcher who can’t hit a lot easier.
I think it’d be a better use of service time to let him get his power up in Charlotte before committing a roster spot to him.
Posted by Jim Margalus | October 12, 2009, 4:00 pmIm a big fan of keeping flowers service time in check by starting him at AAA.
Posted by knoxfire30 | October 12, 2009, 4:03 pmI think the larger question about Thome is who we get to play DH if he doesn’t return. Besides, finding a slugger to DH matters less at this point than getting some serious OBP elsewhere in the lineup, particularly from whomever replaces JD. Maybe we can hope that Getz & Beckham improve with maturity, TCQ may revert to 2008 form if healthy, Rios finds himself, and Paulie & A.J. don’t decline with age, but that’s an awful lot of things to hope for.
Posted by soxexile | October 12, 2009, 9:24 pmJim, what kind of OBP can we expect Beckham to contribute over the long haul? I don’t have him pegged as an automatic .400 like our last 2 HoF sluggres were, but he seems like he could crank and keep it above .350 pretty easily. If we bring back Thome and Quentin is healthy, I think Beckham, Konerko, and those aforementioned two comprise a solid if not stellar OBP base.
Posted by conor | October 12, 2009, 11:38 pmI think .360 would be only mildly optimistic. That’s really if he makes some adjustments and doesn’t experience a sophomore slump. A progressing Beckham and a healthy Quentin would be a fine 2-3 in the order.
Posted by Jim Margalus | October 13, 2009, 3:57 pmDoes anyone else think we should offer dotel arbitration? He would still be
valuable in our bullpen at around 4 millions, especially if we trade jenks. And mlbtraderumors has him as a type a free agent, so if he declined we would get a first round pick
Posted by stopdrop8 | October 13, 2009, 7:33 pmI think Dotel makes a tough case to get a lot more then 4 mil. He likely would get 6 or 7 if his case went to arbitration, I mean his teammate who isnt any good Linebrink makes 5.5
Posted by knoxfire30 | October 13, 2009, 7:52 pmYup. He pitched well enough to not take a salary cut, at least for a one-year deal. If they find a taker for Jenks, it wouldn’t be an awful move. But he wouldn’t be a good value, either.
Posted by Jim Margalus | October 13, 2009, 8:02 pmThe way I see it there’s three possible ways to go about it.
1. Offer Dotel arbitration, he accepts, and we trade jenks. We get dotel, 2 million dollars leftover from what Jenks would have made and whatever we can get for Jenks.
2. Offer him arbitration and he declines, we get a first round draft pick and probably keep Jenks.
3. Do not offer him arbitration. Then either trade Jenks and save around 8 million dollars plus get whatever players in return from the trade, or keep Jenks.
I guess it depends on how much more value they think Jenks has than Dotel. We probably can’t afford to lose both. I think the best possible situation would be the second one, but I don’t think he’d decline arbitration.
Posted by stopdrop8 | October 14, 2009, 12:50 am