posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 2:10 AM by Jim

Are the White Sox one starter short?

Before I begin, here's a mildly amusing occurrence.  I went to Dunkin' Donuts Thursday morning for a hot cup of coffee before work, and they ended up giving me a hot cup of...



At the very least, it's funnier than Gordon Beckham's blog.  Moving on...

Even though John Danks and Gavin Floyd exceeded about everybody's expectations -- Floyd's buzz cut is proof that even he didn't believe in himself that much -- the White Sox find themselves in a similar situation as they did at this time last year.

I was slightly miffed early in the 2007 offseason when Kenny Williams dealt Jon Garland for Orlando Cabrera, because I figured any upgrade in run prevention from Juan Uribe to Cabrera would be negated and then some by the downgrade from Jon Garland to Floyd.  Or Danks.  Whichever one turned out worse, really.

We know how silly that looks now.  They had more than enough starting pitching, with Floyd and Danks outpitching Garland handily along with Jose Contreras exceeding expectations after a disastrous year.

(Aside: In a season when the division is decided by one game, it makes Contreras' contributions a whole lot more significant.  That he rebounded from 2007 with a 101 ERA+ and an 11-9 record in games he started looms extremely large, even if his year was cut short by injury.)

Still, the giant strides by the rotation's two youngest starters still leave some nagging questions.

For Floyd, he's dealing with a career high in innings (206; previous high was 176 2/3 in 2007).  He's also the most homer-prone starter of the bunch, and he never quite paid for getting away with some ugly peripherals in the first half of the season.  Not that luck always evens out, but it's worth saying.

Danks saw a much more dramatic jump in innings (195; previous high 156 in 2005), and had more in-game endurance issues than Floyd on top of that.  He appeared to wear down in the second half before getting a second wind in the last couple weeks of the season, much to everybody's delight.

Going beyond the young guns, there's late-season collapse victim Javier Vazquez and a question mark at fifth starter, right now occupied by Clayton Richard while Contreras tries like hell to rehabilitate his ruptured Achilles.  Richard's a bigger "if" than either Danks or Floyd were at this point last season, but he has momentum, with his last start in Yankee Stadium an unqualified success and his solid relief work during the ALDS.

It's a somewhat complicated picture, but I think there are two sides to it.

No. 1:  The White Sox need another innings-eater.

This is the theory advanced here by some here, most notably Grinder in Training.  Not to single him out, but he summed up the position in a concise fashion in the last thread:

I just think it really puts a strain on the bullpen to have two guys coming off years with such a big increase in innings while also having either a rookie / injury prone pitcher as your number 5. Buehrle's going to have to pitch a complete game every other start to keep that pen fresh.

There's definitely merit to that, especially if the Twins' youth movement develops as planned and the Indians rebound.  It wouldn't be a wise time for the Sox rotation to revert to its 2001-04 shape.

Another starter would push Richard into long-relief work, and he looked pretty comfortable in the swingman role at the end of the season when Guillen pared down his rotation to a four-man version.  That theoretically gives aid to a bullpen that saw two key arms spend time on the disabled list while another miraculously avoided the DL after a hot and heavy three-year relationship with it.

That sounds pretty nice, doesn't it?

No. 2:  Perhaps Sox fans should learn from last year and relax.


Here's a fun stat: Over the last four seasons, White Sox starters have logged the most innings of any team in the American League, averaging 1,032 innings a season.  The Cleveland Indians are second at 1,004.

True, last year they finished with only 998, their first time under 1,000.  But when you consider the rotation had three question marks and another guy with a flaky reputation to start the season -- and a season-ending injury on top of it -- that's a pretty remarkable output.

As the offense continues to struggle getting everybody functioning at the same time, it's natural to want to wring hands.  But the Sox -- at least in the last four years -- seem to have a pretty good handle of what their pitchers are capable of, as they've pushed, pulled, traded and acquired some guys under heavy scrutiny and come out with reputations intact, if not enhanced.

It's a pretty fascinating debate -- especially considering neither argument could've been wrong last year.  One name tossed around was Bartolo Colon, who reportedly joined the Sox until it was revealed ¡Impacto Deportivo! didn't exactly have the greatest sources.

Colon would've fit perfectly on the Sox as his season played out.  He spent nearly the entire season in Pawtucket and put up some nice numbers (I even saw him start a game there), but he bailed on the Red Sox organization at season's end because there wasn't a spot on the playoff roster for him.

Not that the same set of events can be assumed, but as it turned out, Colon would've had the job he'd hoped for during the stretch run if he were transported to the White Sox organization.  He probably would've been Clayton Richard -- a shorter and much more rotund Richard.

So based on what we learned from last year, I'm inclined to hope for the same course of action -- explore the extraneous starter route, but don't make it a priority.  I don't think it would be smart to invest two years in any of the second-tier free agents out there, which leaves the market pretty bare. 

I don't even want to mention the guy whose name rhymes with "Parl Cavano," because continuing to do so would resemble an endorsement, and I have no clue what kind of shape he's in and what his demands are.  But that's the kind of low-cost, decent-yield investment the Sox might benefit from the most.  Given the pretty optimistic state of the rotation and the holes in the infield, I don't see much reason to make starting position any higher of a priority.

***********************

Arizona Fall League roundup:
  • Peoria 9, Surprise 1
    • Gordon Beckham went 2-for-4 with an RBI, walk and strikeout.
    • Carlos Torres worked a scoreless inning, walking one and striking out one.

Comments

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:13 AM by bobleeswagger
Love the Mizzou Tiger in the background!... Any chance Aaron Poreda is ready to step into the rotation in '09 with Richard staying in the pen?

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:45 AM by Grinder in Training
Gotta say it's kinda cool to see your own post in your favorite blog. I didn't think about Poreda as an option but I guess he probably is in the second half. As long as Richard can last as an average number 5 until Contreras gets healthy, or Poreda is ready, starting pitching is definitely toward the bottom of the White Sox issues.

When you add Poreda, second half of the season there are 3 guys for one spot, Richard just has to make it to the August 1st in my mind. Time to put the faith back in KW that he knows what he's doing.

Playoff bullpen - Thornton, Linebrink, Jenks, Dotel, Contreras / Poreda / Richard / Vazquez that could be fun.

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 9:48 AM by John
Trade Dye to the Rays for Edwin Jackson

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 12:28 PM by soxfan1
I agree that we need another starter & love the idea of trading for Edwin Jackson. If we can't get him how about Paul Byrd?

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 1:06 PM by knoxfire30
Gavin Floyd logged 199 2/3's innings in 07 between triple A and the bigs, so I really dont think a jump to 206 innings in 08 is going to have any effect on him at all during the 2009 season.

Wouldnt Derek Lowe be a perfect fit, he has performed in big markets on big stages, had success in the American League, he eats innings, and has a sinkerball 2nd to none that will play well at US Cellular field.

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 1:07 PM by Joist
That must have been some nice coffee.

I also like the idea of trading Dye for Jackson - the Rays will likely let Baldelli walk, and I can't see them actually believing that Gabe Freaking Gross is the answer in RF. With Upton manning CF Dye really just has to pull a "token girl on the co-ed softball team" and guard the right field line with his life. Dye is relatively inexpensive, so he might be a good move for a cheap team looking to land a big name. Given Jackson's expendability with Price's emergence, Kenny may even be able to get Tampa to throw in a minor leaguer.

Of course, now that multiple people mentioned this as a possibility, Kenny would never do it. As for other SP options, I like what the Sox did with the outfield in '07 - throw a bunch of low-risk guys against the wall and see what sticks. We entered '07 spring training with Dye as the only sure thing in the outfield, but we had Owens, Swish, Quentin, and Alexei for the last two spots. Since three of the four turned out to be everyday starters, one of them moved to the IF, and everybody was happy.

One other thing I just thought of was that by not trading for a starter last offseason, when the need seemed pretty real, Kenny showed the other GMs that he's not going to overpay, and that he's comfortable with what he has even if it doesn't look like much. Other GMs won't be able to lowball him. Does that make sense? I dunno, but I definitely agree with Jim that there are higher priorities out there, and if Dye could fetch either a 5th starter or a starting infielder, it's a no-brainer that we go with the infielder.

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 1:22 PM by knoxfire30
I think Tampa is a great trade partner if the whitesox due deal Dye. However Edwin Jackson is extremely inconsistent, out of minor league options, and is starting arbitration so he will get pricey fast. What about trying to pry loose Wade Davis or Jeff Niemann from the Rays in exchange for Dye???

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 1:34 PM by Jim Margalus
Real quick thought -- and I'll respond more later -- the Rays aren't under as much pressure to trade Jackson because he has the stuff of a closer. So Dye for Jackson might be fair, but I wouldn't count on the Rays to go further than that, if they'd be interested in trading Jackson at all.

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 1:42 PM by UribeAuction
I agree with Jim here in that the Rays likely won't feel a burning need to deal Jackson, but something tells me that if the White Sox offered Dye, the Rays would at least consider. I'm not sure they'd take it, though, as they may be looking for a longer-term RF in a deal involving Jackson. If they can't find one, there's no harm in moving Jackson to the bullpen and then either adapting him to the closer's role or using him as an emergency starter/long reliever.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go look for some buffalo meat. Specifically: from Ralphie. M-I-Z

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 1:57 PM by Conor
Are you the same Knoxfire that posts on the official Sox page?

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 2:02 PM by knoxfire30
yes

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 2:26 PM by MattTheRock
I don't see the Rays biting on Dye. That system is still deep enough for them to stand pat and not have to worry about a dramatic loss in production from whoever ends up there. Dye's getting older and doesn't exactly give you much on the defensive side any longer. If I'm the Rays, I'm looking into a younger player for Jackson and maybe a couple of pieces. The scary thing with them is they've got people coming up after Price who's going to be pushing guys like Sonnastine out of the rotation as well. Would really like to have their system, that's for sure. Now the 10+ years of crap before that... I'm not so sure.

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 4:08 PM by Jim Margalus
Rapid fire response time!

Bob: You go to Mizzou too?

Knox: I'm seeing 176 innings for Floyd in '07 -- 106 with Charlotte, 70 with the Sox. But that's a reasonable increase in innings nevertheless, unless you count the short-rest starts as double credit.

About Byrd: Don't see how he ends up with anything less than a two-year contract. Poreda who could be on the team a month or two into '09 if that slider comes around, would make a lengthy commitment unwise, IMO.

About Lowe: He's going to cost way too much.

I think Dye is worth more to the Rays than a lot of other teams, because they were using Gabe Gross and Cliff Floyd for production out of that spot, and Dye's superior to both. They wouldn't want him for long, so his contract is favorable there.

The bigger question to me is whether the Rays *have* to move a pitcher, which I don't quite see yet. Jackson would seem to be the guy they push, though, because he's arb-eligible beginning this offseason.

And Z-O-U.

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 4:35 PM by knoxfire30
Hmm your right, not sure why I had seen 199 and 2/3rds elsewhere. But about Derek Lowe is 14 mil a year really too much. Contreres comes off the books next year for 10 million, As well as Thome for I believe the sox paying 8.5, Crede 5.1, Uribe 4.5, Orlando Cabrera 9 all coming off this offseason. Even after salary raises and free agent signings their is some money there to make a Lowe deal. Especially if they go cheap at 2nd with Chris Getz or go cheap at DH next year with Josh Fields.

You can also free up money with a Javy Vazquez trade to maybe bring in a JJ Hardy, who could slide to third perhaps????

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 6:19 PM by bobleeswagger
I go to Northern Illinois, but my best friend goes to Mizzou so i make it down for a couple games a year and follow their sports teams pretty closely... I know I'm probably a year ahead of myself with this, but with the White Sox current needs, I'm ready for Aaron Poreda and Gordon Beckham now.

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:28 PM by chisoxt
Any thoughts of the Sox acquiring a big name, big $ free agent should begin and end with the realization that they are paying an injured Contreras $10 million, an incompetent MacDougal $3 million and an ouchy Linebrink $5 million. Even with Crede and Cabrera coming 'off the books' we still have to fill those voids with decent players that we do not have in our system. Factor in a very crappy economy in '09 and it all adds up to either acqistion through trades or bargain basement free agents.
Please try to go younger Kenny, please.

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:45 AM by Jim Margalus
And beyond dollars, there's one reason why the Sox would never, ever consider going for Lowe.

Hint: It has to do with his agent.

# re: Are the White Sox one starter short?

Monday, October 27, 2008 9:40 AM by BigHurt
I think the Sox could save alot of money and possibly offer an incentive laden deal to Carl Pavano who is familiar with Ozzie from the Florida Marlins days.He is coming off an injury could be had on the cheap but did look decent in a few starts at the end of the 2008 season.But if not a veteran Aaron Poreda or Clayton Richard,Lance Broadway could battle it out in Spring Training.Id rather spend the money on some much needed speed in the offense.