posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 1:41 AM by Jim

Hunter in the sights of Williams' love gun

The briefing of The Bill James Handbook 2008 will be put on hold until this weekend, since none of the bookstores around here carry it, or even plan on carrying it.  That means I'll have to drive out to Cooperstown on Saturday, which is where I found it last year.  So sorry for that.

That said, I'll still do my damndest to make this a Coco Crisp-free post.

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A different outfielder took the forefront today -- Torii Hunter, who will meet with Kenny Williams next week.

Here's what Joe Cowley says:

Hunter has said he loves playing at U.S. Cellular Field, where he has hit nine home runs since 2004 and made his share of highlight-reel catches at the center-field wall, and would seem like a perfect fit with the Sox.

[...]

Hunter would seem to make sense at $15 million a year if the sides can work out the number of years. He already reportedly turned down a three-year, $45 million offer from the Twins because he wanted a five-year deal.

The number of years might not be the only issue, according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune's Joe Christensen:

For those who think Hunter was foolish to turn down 3/45, I think you are grossly underestimating today’s market. A National League scout told me yesterday that 5/75 million was a low estimate for Hunter, and that he expects him to get $90 million, probably from the Yankees. Asked who he’d rather have Hunter or Andruw Jones, the scout said Hunter, adding that it isn’t even close.

That last sentenced surprised me a little bit, but then again, Hunter still looks pretty lithe out there in center.  Jones, on the other hand, has gotten pretty... voluptuous, to put it one way.  Barring any drastic change in training routines, Hunter seems a better bet to hold down his current position five years from now.

Still, $90 million is a lot for the decline years of a guy who isn't known to put teams on his back.  Making matters even scarier is his list of his 10 most comparable players:
  1. Carl Everett -- Done at 35
  2. Preston Wilson -- Hit a wall at 31, barely a major-leaguer at 32
  3. Phil Nevin -- Retired at 35
  4. Juan Encarnacion -- Career jeopardized at 31 due to freak foul ball accident.
  5. Jose Guillen -- Oft-injured, but resurgent at 31.
  6. Jacque Jones -- 87 OPS+ last year at 32.
  7. Geoff Jenkins -- Playing time reduced at age 32, but still productive
  8. Bobby Higginson -- Power vanished at 32.
  9. Larry Hisle -- Had career year at 31 in 1979, but tore rotator cuff in '80
  10. Leon Wagner -- Retired at 35
Baseball-Reference.com says his career path most similarly resembles Jermaine Dye's.  There's no point in letting that scare us, since the Sox are already signed up for two years and $23 million more of that action, with one of those years protected by a no-trade clause.

The story with that list is pretty easy -- these guys don't have favorable walk/strikeout rates, so when the physical tools erode, they don't have the strike zone knowledge to keep pitchers honest.  The banged-up Dye we saw in the first half this year could easily be the full-speed Dye two years from now, and that was hard to watch.

Hunter has managed good health, aside from the ankle injury he suffered in 2005, and his wheels are still there.  But five years is a hell of a gamble for the type of player who historically hasn't had the skill set to compensate for aging.

If I had to go after a veteran center fielder (I still don't think it's smart for this team), I'd rather go after Mike Cameron, who can still cover center at age 34 and will require a shorter, cheaper contract -- especially since he'll miss 25 games at the start of the 2008 season for testing positive for stimulants.  Perhaps he won't need them if he stops showing up to games drunk.

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More news:

*In that Cowley article, he states the Sox are likely to pick up Juan Uribe's option and try to lure David Eckstein to Chicago.  That's pretty much the sum of all fears right there.

*The Padres declined the $3.25 million option on Rob Mackowiak.  He's coming off a double sports hernia operation.

*Joey Cora is in the hunt for Pittsburgh's managerial opening -- and one of his competitors is Joel Skinner, who may have cost the Cleveland Indians a trip to the World Series with an ill-advised stop sign at third base.  Cora looks pretty good by comparison.

Comments

# re: Hunter in the sights of Williams' love gun

Friday, November 02, 2007 8:03 AM by Roy Dean Bream
I'm convinced. They're trying to get bad on purpose so they can move the team to Miami.

Just like Margaret Whitton tried to do in Major League.

# re: Hunter in the sights of Williams' love gun

Friday, November 02, 2007 8:59 AM by JasonC23
On the one hand, Hunter would quite clearly be better than any internal Sox CF solution for the next year or two, and possibly three, depending on how quickly his defense declines. Plus, a division rival would be weakened. So there are certainly arguments for doing this.

On the other hand, while shuffling Konerko into a DH role will be fine in year 5 (and maybe years 4 and 5) of his deal, where does Torii go? LF? DH also? 1B? Yeesh. A lot to pay for a well-below-average bat at any of those destinations (although the Sox seem to get some perverse joy out of having a below-average LF bat).

Someone needs to be constantly whispering in Kenny's ear, "You're paying him to get worse. You're paying him to get worse."

# re: Hunter in the sights of Williams' love gun

Friday, November 02, 2007 9:33 AM by Jim Margalus
Not picturing a cardboard cut-out of Reinsdorf, not picturing a cardboard cut-out of Reinsdorf, not picturing a cardboard cut-out of Reinsdorf...

# re: Hunter in the sights of Williams' love gun

Friday, November 02, 2007 10:52 AM by Roy Dean Bream
Hunter is an incredibly big gamble and he wants a lot of money from someone to potentially watch him erode.

If they want a FA CF this badly, why not Rowand? He is easily the lesser of the three evils and would be a huge P.R. move for the team. I think the people running this team are a bunch of loons.

Getting old and bad does not interest me. Buehrle, Dye and Pierzynski are enough. It is time to start restacking the deck rather than pile more big money guys in their thirties whose arrows are pointing down.

# re: Hunter in the sights of Williams' love gun

Friday, November 02, 2007 2:28 PM by larry
bookstores? what are those? order it direct and you would have gotten it yesterday or today.

# re: Hunter in the sights of Williams' love gun

Friday, November 02, 2007 2:44 PM by Jeff from AH
I honestly have serious doubts Kenny is targeting Rowand and noise related to that effect is likely conjured up by the media. Let's take a walk down memory lane: Rowand was never a darling of the White Sox organization, replaced by Kenny Lofton three weeks before spring training in '02, minor leaguer Brian Simmons was given the job on a silver platter over Aaron but never able to stay healthy, Rowand carelessly injured himself, than even after winning a world series they felt comfortable handing the job to another minor leaguer in Brian Anderson.

I certainly understand we received considerable value in return from the Phillies and kudos to Rowand for surpassing organization expectations; developing into a quality major league center fielder.

However, I don't want my starting center fielder to be a marketing ploy. He is over-valued in the hearts of many Sox fans for "the fire and passion" component.

On another note, what does everyone think about the possibility of Rafael Furcal at SS? It all depends if A-Rod is signed by the Dodgers and moves back to short stop, but if that is the case one would think Fucal can be snagged...

# re: Hunter in the sights of Williams' love gun

Friday, November 02, 2007 4:06 PM by Jim Margalus
"bookstores? what are those? order it direct and you would have gotten it yesterday or today."

I'm not a huge fan of e-commerce. Not because of security issues or anything, but just because I really, really, really like bookstores. Thumbing through stuff and browsing shelves is way better than clicking. Same thing with record stores. I'll buy a CD from a store every week or two, while I maybe five songs on my iPod are off iTunes.

***

"On another note, what does everyone think about the possibility of Rafael Furcal at SS? It all depends if A-Rod is signed by the Dodgers and moves back to short stop, but if that is the case one would think Fucal can be snagged..."

I don't think A-Rod will be necessary. Chin-Lung Hu is just about ready to take over at short, so Furcal is likely expendable today. Joe Torre throws a wrench into things, because he heavily prefers veterans when they're available.

# Torii Loves U.S. Cellular

Friday, November 02, 2007 4:22 PM by SBG
Haha!

Where doesn't Torii supposedly love to play? He spent the entire 2007 season telling every team the Twins played that he'd love to play in their stadium. He's even on record as saying he'd love to play for the Nationals!

# re: Hunter in the sights of Williams' love gun

Tuesday, November 06, 2007 1:57 PM by Roy Dean Bream
I don't want anyone on the team to be a marketing ploy, but if they're hellbent on signing a free agent CF then Rowand is the one of the three I want. Hands down.

I think the center field issue is giving White Sox fans WAAAAAAAY too much stress because of the whole "speed up the middle" theory that coincides with grinders, small ball, fire and passion.

# re: Hunter in the sights of Williams' love gun

Wednesday, November 07, 2007 2:26 AM by Jim Margalus
I am convinced that CF defense is crucial, because Dye and Fields are going to need all the help they can get. Owens didn't look half bad, but only Rowand really solves that issue.

(There is another guy who would as well, but I promised I wouldn't mention him.)